{"id":102429,"date":"2026-10-04T18:23:37","date_gmt":"2026-10-04T18:23:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/site.itshrt.com\/worldnews\/full-transcript-of-face-the-nation-with-margaret-brennan-oct-4-2026\/"},"modified":"2026-10-04T18:23:37","modified_gmt":"2026-10-04T18:23:37","slug":"full-transcript-of-face-the-nation-with-margaret-brennan-oct-4-2026","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/site.itshrt.com\/worldnews\/full-transcript-of-face-the-nation-with-margaret-brennan-oct-4-2026\/","title":{"rendered":"Full transcript of &#8220;Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,&#8221; Oct. 4, 2026"},"content":{"rendered":"<p> <script async src=\"https:\/\/pagead2.googlesyndication.com\/pagead\/js\/adsbygoogle.js?client=ca-pub-6606220950177433\"\r\n     crossorigin=\"anonymous\"><\/script>\r\n<!-- ItShrt World News -->\r\n<ins class=\"adsbygoogle\"\r\n     style=\"display:block\"\r\n     data-ad-client=\"ca-pub-6606220950177433\"\r\n     data-ad-slot=\"1882483372\"\r\n     data-ad-format=\"auto\"\r\n     data-full-width-responsive=\"true\"><\/ins>\r\n<script>\r\n     (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});\r\n<\/script>\r\n<br \/>\n<\/p>\n<div id=\"\">\n<p>On this &#8220;Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan&#8221; broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:\u00a0<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Energy Secretary <strong>Chris Wright<\/strong><\/li>\n<li><strong>Anthony Salvanto<\/strong>, CBS News executive director of news and surveys<\/li>\n<li>Sen. <strong>Mark Kelly<\/strong>, Democrat of Arizona<\/li>\n<li><strong>Zach Lahn<\/strong>, Iowa GOP nominee for governor<\/li>\n<li><strong>Brett<\/strong> <strong>McGurk<\/strong>, who served as a top Middle East adviser to former President Joe Biden<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Click <span class=\"link\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cbsnews.com\/face-the-nation\/transcripts\/\" target=\"_blank\" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=\"\">here<\/a><\/span> to browse full transcripts from 2026 of &#8220;Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.&#8221;\u00a0 \u00a0<\/p>\n<hr\/>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: I&#8217;m Margaret Brennan in Washington.<\/p>\n<p>And this week on Face the Nation: One month away from midterms, and the pressure on the president to do something about high prices is building.<\/p>\n<p>With control of the House and Senate at stake, President Trump has been on a red state road trip to get Republicans to the polls. He now concedes that his party might have a messaging problem when it comes to the economy.<\/p>\n<p>(Begin VT)<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): We&#8217;re doing a phenomenal job, but maybe we&#8217;re doing a bad job in selling it.<\/p>\n<p>(End VT)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: And our new CBS poll has troubling news for the president&#8217;s party, with nine in 10 voters saying they rate the economy on the basis of prices. Seven in 10 say that Trump&#8217;s policies are making food and grocery prices go up. And nine in 10 say the conflict with Iran is making U.S. gas and oil prices either a lot or a little higher.<\/p>\n<p>With early voting now under way, is it too late for Trump to turn things around?<\/p>\n<p>We will talk with Energy Secretary Chris Wright about new efforts to get gas prices down. Plus, we will ask Zach Lahn, the Republican running for governor in Iowa, and Arizona Democratic Senator Mark Kelly what they&#8217;re finding out on the campaign trail.<\/p>\n<p>All that and more is just ahead on Face the Nation.<\/p>\n<p>Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.<\/p>\n<p>We begin with one of the Trump administration officials tasked with working to lower those high gas and oil prices, Energy Secretary Chris Wright.<\/p>\n<p>Good morning to you.<\/p>\n<p>CHRIS WRIGHT (U.S. Energy Secretary): Good morning, Margaret.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: So, it&#8217;s good to have you here.<\/p>\n<p>You said this past week that Americans can expect lower gasoline prices and diesel prices by Election Day. The Wall Street Journal editorial board has a piece outlining that the campaign to squeeze Iran financially is working, but they can still knock out significant Gulf energy infrastructure.<\/p>\n<p>They could be planning an October surprise before the U.S. midterms. We are still seeing Iranian attacks on ships now. I mean, how can you be so confident prices are headed down?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Well, because we&#8217;ve got increasing supplies coming out of the Strait of Hormuz, and they&#8217;ve continued to rise over the last months, over the last recent weeks.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ve got U.S. gasoline production today at record high. We have demand for gasoline as we come out of the summer driving season starting to go down. Similar stories with diesel. Diesel&#8217;s mostly been impacted by the Russia- Ukraine war and also by China&#8217;s decision not to export diesel or gasoline into the marketplace.<\/p>\n<p>And, of course, we&#8217;re living with two refineries that were recently closed, large refineries in California that Gavin Newsom forced the closure of, and, frankly, 15 years of Democrat policies that have been energy subtraction, trying to close coal plants, close refineries, and shrink our capacity, which means, when you get in crisis, we&#8217;re just less resilient than we should be.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: But you still think that, in the next four weeks, prices are going to go down?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Absolutely. Diesel prices have been going down. Gasoline prices have been going down. I expect that to continue.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to talk about diesel in a minute, but I \u2013 I was reading that the U.S. was sending more defensive equipment to the Gulf countries to protect their oil infrastructure.<\/p>\n<p>I see there was a gathering of national security advisers at Camp David on Friday to talk about Iran and the conflict in Yemen. Can you share any outcome from that? I mean, is \u2013 is the U.S. about to escalate? We did just see a third carrier strike group get sent to the region.<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Look, the president has \u2013 has taken a strong stand that Iran, the world&#8217;s greatest terrorist regime \u2013 regime, cannot and will not have nuclear weapons.<\/p>\n<p>So, of course, we&#8217;re looking at every avenue to achieve that goal, economically, to be prepared for what comes militarily. But we cannot pass to the next administration an Iran armed with nuclear weapons. Not only is that a threat to peace and stability.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: That&#8217;s a massive long-term threat to energy prices.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, but he&#8217;s also said that they&#8217;re not seeking a nuclear weapon. He said that just the other day that they might have actually already stopped.<\/p>\n<p>But in the immediate sense of threats to our neighbors who have refinery and production capacity, how do you guarantee that there is no October surprise that sends those prices going the opposite direction?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Hey, well, there&#8217;s no guarantees. There&#8217;s no guarantees in conflict. There&#8217;s no guarantees in life.<\/p>\n<p>But everything we&#8217;re doing is to grow the supply of diesel, to grow the supply of gasoline, and, frankly, again, to reverse years of policies that have been directed exactly the opposite, to shrink our ability to produce, refine, and deliver hydrocarbons.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Can you say whether the president has decided he will escalate post-Election Day? That&#8217;s when that third carrier strike group will be arriving, mid-November.<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Oh, I&#8217;m definitely not going to get in front of the president&#8217;s plans or policies. But remember\u2026<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: He&#8217;s thrown that out there himself.<\/p>\n<p>(CROSSTALK)<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: \u2026 he&#8217;s \u2013 he&#8217;s always planning for contingencies and he&#8217;s always negotiating. How you communicate, what you \u2013 what you lean in on, it sends a message to the other side. He&#8217;s been a master, a master at doing that.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: So he&#8217;s got both tracks still going, diplomatic and military pressure?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Of course, of course, at all times.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, you talked about diesel.<\/p>\n<p>The world&#8217;s wealthiest countries, the G7, this past week agreed to release 100 million barrels of fuel over four months. They&#8217;re going to front-load it with a lot of diesel in the next 20 days. I know you asked our friends and allies to consider doing this. How significant a price impact and for how long?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: It&#8217;s a big deal. It&#8217;s a big deal.<\/p>\n<p>Europe has very large diesel stores. They \u2013 you know, they don&#8217;t refine enough diesel to supply their own economies, so naturally they store a lot of diesel. They&#8217;re very keen to see American diesel continue to flow to Europe. They&#8217;ve got a lot of diesel in stores. Why not release some of that?<\/p>\n<p>This is what you store diesel for, when all the Russian exports of diesel are shut down, when the Chinese have said, we&#8217;re not going to deliver any more diesel, and you still have a reduction of diesel flows coming out of the Gulf. But we&#8217;re restoring those. But that takes time.<\/p>\n<p>This is just common sense. This lowers diesel prices, not just in the United States, but it lowers them in Europe and around the world. But it will drive diesel prices down as those releases come. It&#8217;ll drive diesel down through the winter in the United States and around the world.<\/p>\n<p>And \u2013 and, by then, we&#8217;ll be in another place. We&#8217;ll have more refining capacity online. I \u2013 I suspect we&#8217;ll continue to see diesel decline as we go into next spring as well.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: So, below six bucks, which is where it is?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, by post-midterms, or where\u2026<\/p>\n<p>(CROSSTALK)<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Well, down.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Just down.<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: It&#8217;s down a little over 20 cents so far.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: I think you&#8217;ll see it continue to go down. Yes, you should see it below $6 before too long. But exactly when, I certainly don&#8217;t know that.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: So the allies did this after President Trump said he was considering a diesel export ban. You had so many quotes where you were telling people, this is not a good idea. Let&#8217;s not do a diesel export ban.<\/p>\n<p>But the president kept saying it was a consideration. Has he completely ruled out an export ban at this point?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Look, every day, he&#8217;s throwing out ideas. He&#8217;s engaging with discussions with me, others in the administration.<\/p>\n<p>(CROSSTALK)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Even when you&#8217;re saying it&#8217;s not a good idea?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>(LAUGHTER)<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: No, he \u2013 he \u2013 he&#8217;s a thinker.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: But you&#8217;re the expert.<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: He says \u2013 well \u2013 well, but there&#8217;s different ways to slice this cat. There&#8217;s different ways to look at it.<\/p>\n<p>He&#8217;s always looking, how do I lower energy prices? How do I lower heating prices, electricity prices, gasoline prices, diesel prices? In fact, I would say his constant communication of that may have been quite helpful in achieving \u2013 in achieving the deal we just struck.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Because people thought he might actually not listen to you and go ahead and do it?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: I\u2026<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: That was the \u2013 the ploy, essentially?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: It \u2013 it wasn&#8217;t a ploy. It&#8217;s just a constant dialogue about the many levers we have. How can we drive down diesel prices and drive down gasoline and \u2013 and other prices along with it?<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: So we checked, and it looks like, because of this Lindsey Graham bill that gives the president more sort of powers to punish the buyers of Russian fuel, he has to make a decision by October the 18th as to whether he&#8217;s going to put tariffs on the biggest buyers. That would be China, and that would be India. Is he going to do that?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Look, he \u2013 he leaves every decision until the end. He&#8217;ll evaluate the trade-offs. He has worked ceaselessly to try to end this war.<\/p>\n<p>Not only would end \u2013 would ending this war end the killing of \u2013 of tens and of thousands of people every month. It would dramatically lower energy prices. He&#8217;s wanted to end that conflict, yes, since before he was president.<\/p>\n<p>So \u2013 and \u2013 and there is constant, constant dialogues with both sides in that to try to bring that war to an end.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: But, at this point, like, what&#8217;s the direction here? You just had this big state visit. Are we actually in a position where the U.S. might put tariffs on China for buying Russian oil? Are we actually going to see that? And what impact would that have?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Again, I won&#8217;t get in front of the president on that. We&#8217;re trying to have the best relations we can.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ve looked at the projections on what it would do for pricing.<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Of course we&#8217;re trying to have great relations with China and move that ball forward. I think things are going reasonably well there.<\/p>\n<p>But then the flip side is, you&#8217;ve got to look at every leverage you&#8217;ve got to bring a murderous conflict to an end.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm. So, he may? And you would encourage him to?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: I&#8217;m not going to say. I&#8217;m not going to say on either one of those.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: He&#8217;s \u2013 he&#8217;s looking to how to end that conflict and how to lower prices for Americans every day.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>Well, the date just stood out, you know, weeks before the midterms, doing something that could arguably push prices back up, and so if it&#8217;s a national security decision \u2013 decision versus a political one. Be interested to know your point of view.<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Hey, if his decisions were political, he would have just kicked the can down the road and delivered a nuclear-armed Iran to the next president. You&#8217;ve got to respect that.<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s an incredible move to lean in and say, I&#8217;m not going to let them become nuclear-armed. He knew it was going to elevate energy prices in the short run. He said, I&#8217;m going to take a hit there, but I got to do the right thing.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: You did tell him that, that there would be a huge energy price spike, when he made this decision?<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: He \u2013 he was well aware of \u2013 of the risk to energy flows that were coming out of the Persian Gulf region. He said, I simply cannot \u2013 the world cannot sustain a nuclear-armed Iran, and I&#8217;m not going to do it.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Wright, thank you for your time today.<\/p>\n<p>SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT: Thank you, Margaret.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Face Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>(ANNOUNCEMENTS)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Our new CBS News Battleground Tracker poll finds that, if the election were held today, Democrats have a lead in that battle for control of the House. It would give them a 229-seat majority, with Republicans at 206 seats.<\/p>\n<p>Anthony Salvanto is our executive director of elections and surveys and joins me now.<\/p>\n<p>So, Anthony, when you look at this, the president&#8217;s argument that he has the best economic numbers of any president in the history of the world don&#8217;t seem to be persuading.<\/p>\n<p>ANTHONY SALVANTO: It all comes back to prices, which is how people evaluate the economy.<\/p>\n<p>Number one, the Democrats are winning more of the votes of people who say that they are hard-hit by prices. But this affects Republicans too in this way. Republicans tell us they&#8217;re less likely to turn out than Democrats say.<\/p>\n<p>And that&#8217;s important. It&#8217;s driving a lot of that lead that you just described. But then you look at the Republicans who are saying that. The ones who give the president relatively worse marks on handling inflation than they do for other matters, the ones who were most hard-hit themselves by prices, they&#8217;re not necessarily switching over and voting for Democrats.<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;re just saying they&#8217;re going to sit this one out. And that&#8217;s a big part of this. It&#8217;s also, when you pull back the lens and look wider at what the electorate wants, you see opposition to a candidate in principle who supports tariffs. They don&#8217;t want a candidate who supports data centers, because they think AI is going to take jobs, and they want a candidate who opposes the Iran conflict, because they think that&#8217;s driving up gas prices.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Hispanic voters were so pivotal in 2024 for Republicans. Where are they now?<\/p>\n<p>ANTHONY SALVANTO: Hispanic voters have moved more towards the Democrats than they were in 2024. And what that means is that the Republicans will not necessarily get the gains out of redistricting that they had hoped for if they can&#8217;t keep those Hispanic voter gains that they made in 2024, Hispanic voters just as concerned about the economy and also a little more concerned about the president&#8217;s focus on deportation.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: And, even with a majority, it&#8217;s a narrow one. That creates all sorts of political challenges.<\/p>\n<p>Anthony, fascinating.<\/p>\n<p>ANTHONY SALVANTO: Thanks.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Arizona Senator Mark Kelly. He joins us from Charleston, South Carolina, where he is campaigning for his fellow Democrats.<\/p>\n<p>Good morning to you, Senator.<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY (D-Arizona): Good morning.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Our CBS polling shows that Democrats have reason to be optimistic about taking the House, but how much harder will it be in the Senate?<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, Margaret, there is a lot of energy in the states I have been to recently, whether it&#8217;s Ohio or Iowa, Kansas, Georgia, now here in South Carolina. I think we have real opportunities in a lot of places.<\/p>\n<p>But, also, I mean, this could be, you know, close elections in many of these states. But I will tell you this. People are frustrated and they&#8217;re fed up with Washington D.C. right now, and they know that this president is not addressing, you know, any of the needs that affect them and their families.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, the cost of living is way too high. The price of everything just keeps going up.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: And people can&#8217;t afford their lives.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, President Trump announced Friday he&#8217;s going to send $90 payments to 20 million older Americans this month, Medicare Part B enrollees. That&#8217;s in addition to sending $500 in terms of checks to ACA refunds to a million people.<\/p>\n<p>Also said, if Republicans win, then he&#8217;ll send everyone 5,000 bucks. Do you support any of that? And what exactly is the Democratic message on lowering costs for Americans?<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, certainly, trying to help some working-class people and seniors on a fixed income.<\/p>\n<p>But you got to remember this is a guy that gave a big tax cut to the wealthiest Americans, to billionaires and millionaires, and then, to partially pay for it, he&#8217;s kicking people off of their health care, off of Medicaid. He&#8217;s taken food benefits away from people that are having a hard time affording food, even children, in order to help out his family and his friends.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: So I think people should see this for what it is, especially this $5,000 payment if Republicans maintain control of the House and the Senate. I mean, this is just a \u2013 a payoff, and he&#8217;s trying to buy votes.<\/p>\n<p>I mean, are you surprised with this president, who, in my view, is the most corrupt occupant of the Oval Office ever? I&#8217;m not surprised, but it&#8217;s not right.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: But what is the affirmative Democratic message here, other than, we&#8217;re not him?<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, we&#8217;re going to lower costs for the American people.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: How?<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: We&#8217;ve got to win the House and\/or the Senate.<\/p>\n<p>Well \u2013 well, how will we do this? I have legislation with \u2013 with Chris Van Hollen. We&#8217;ve got to get Republicans on board. It raises taxes for people who make over a million dollars a year in income, and it provides tax cuts for people, individuals and even couples up to \u2013 who make up to about $160,000 a year. That&#8217;s some relief.<\/p>\n<p>Ending this war in Iran that he started without a \u2013 any kind of a strategic goal or a plan has jacked up prices for the American people. Ending that would help. Getting this tariff policy reversed, these ridiculous tariffs that have also jacked up prices, the American people pay this.<\/p>\n<p>For some reason, the president thinks that foreign countries are paying for these tariffs. That is not true.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: So, there are things, a lot of things, we can and will do once we win back the House and\/or the Senate.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Republicans have pulled funding, as I understand it, from North Carolina&#8217;s Senate race. They&#8217;ve redirected it out to Kansas, not typically a place a Republican would have to spend money to \u2013 to keep an advantage.<\/p>\n<p>But what seats specifically are you optimistic you can turn blue?<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, there are a lot of them.<\/p>\n<p>I spent some time in Kansas with Adam Hamilton. He&#8217;s a pastor. He&#8217;s \u2013 he&#8217;s a great guy. He is the right person for Kansas. He understands what Kansans are dealing with. Josh Turek in Iowa, similar kind of situation, where that&#8217;s a very winnable race, Mary Peltola in Alaska, Troy Jackson in Maine, Sherrod Brown in Ohio.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m going to do an event, you know, here today with Annie Andrews in South Carolina. Yes, I understand it&#8217;s South Carolina, but she is a pediatrician. She&#8217;s working incredibly hard. She&#8217;s raising the resources to be successful.<\/p>\n<p>And then there are the House races. Admiral Nancy Lacore \u2013 I did an event with her yesterday here in South Carolina \u2013 can be critical to Democrats winning back the House of Representatives. She&#8217;s a \u2013 she&#8217;s a three-star admiral, a Naval aviator, like myself, who was fired by Pete Hegseth early in this administration.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, a number of Senate Republicans have expressed some concern about Secretary Hegseth&#8217;s firing. He also announced this past week he&#8217;s going to cut by 20 percent the number of generals and admirals, he says, in order to try to change the culture. And what the media calls a purge, he says is simply a matter of accountability.<\/p>\n<p>Do you have any insight into who he will be targeting in these cuts? And, if Democrats take some control, do you have any ability to stop it?<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, he often fires people because of the color of their skin or because they&#8217;re women.<\/p>\n<p>He also seems to be looking for\u2026<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: He would deny that.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. MARK KELLY: \u2026 loyal \u2013 of course he would deny that. I think anybody would deny that.<\/p>\n<p>But it&#8217;s pretty obvious. When you have a list of seven people who don&#8217;t promote from one-star to two-star, and five of them are either black or women, it&#8217;s pretty obvious. Also, right off the bat, firing C.Q. Brown without giving any reason, without any particular reason why one of the most qualified professional aviators, but a four-star general, chief of staff of the Air Force, fired.<\/p>\n<p>Lisa Franchetti\u2026<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: \u2026 the chief of Naval operations, fired. The commandant of the Coast Guard, also a woman, was fired. The \u2013 the list goes on, Margaret.<\/p>\n<p>This is a pattern with this secretary of defense. And it&#8217;s damaging our readiness. And when you hurt readiness, it means that all of us, everybody watching the show, you and your family, are less safe, because we have the most unqualified secretary of defense we&#8217;ve ever had in this country&#8217;s history.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he gave a big speech this past week. The secretary said that every military branch has hit its recruiting targets ahead of the end of the year. He also argues military sexual assaults are on the decline.<\/p>\n<p>I know they have been on the decline for a few years now. But what is your response to his argument that he&#8217;s doing something right?<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: Well, he&#8217;s doing very little right.<\/p>\n<p>Remember, Margaret, this is a guy that gets on a stage in front of the senior leadership of the U.S. military and runs around talking about killing people and lethality and that the rules of engagement \u2013 I&#8217;m going to paraphrase, but he talks about how he wants to eliminate or reduce the rules of engagement.<\/p>\n<p>And you see the consequences of that in Iran. And he\u2026<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR MARK KELLY: His plan is what we went into Iran with, and he has bombed or attacked over 15,000 targets, depleting our munitions supply.<\/p>\n<p>This thing has been a disaster because the secretary of defense has no idea what he&#8217;s doing.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. MARK KELLY: And, to some extent, he&#8217;s also a yes \u2013 a yes-man for the president. Nobody seems to want to push back against this president, who\u2026<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. MARK KELLY: \u2026 who I \u2013 I think is checked out from even trying to do this job\u2026<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. MARK KELLY: \u2026 got us into another war with \u2013 without \u2013 without a plan and without explaining \u2013 explaining to the American people, what are we going to get out of this?<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator, I&#8217;m sorry to cut you off, but I&#8217;m out of time. I have to leave it there. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>(ANNOUNCEMENTS)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Tomorrow is the first Monday in October, which marks the start of a new Supreme Court term.<\/p>\n<p>Our Jan Crawford sat down with Justice Samuel Alito in an interview for CBS News about his new book, &#8220;So Ordered.&#8221; Here&#8217;s a preview.<\/p>\n<p>(Begin VT)<\/p>\n<p>JAN CRAWFORD: When you have political leaders on both sides talking about the Supreme Court as though justices are just nothing more than political actors trying to deliver victory to their team, how damaging is that to the court?<\/p>\n<p>SAMUEL ALITO (U.S. Supreme Court Associate Justice): I think it&#8217;s damaging. I think it can be quite damaging.<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s been a great change in what presidents have said about the court when they are unhappy about our decisions. Traditionally, what presidents would say is, the Supreme Court, it&#8217;s made its decision, I disagree with it, but we have to abide by it. And that was it.<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s what presidents said. That&#8217;s what members of the Cabinet said. That has changed. And\u2026<\/p>\n<p>JAN CRAWFORD: Did Trump change that?<\/p>\n<p>JUSTICE SAMUEL ALITO: It&#8217;s been bipartisan. It&#8217;s a bipartisan effort.<\/p>\n<p>JAN CRAWFORD: But what&#8217;s \u2013 in terms of presidents, I mean, the language that we&#8217;re hearing from President Trump is different, certainly with social media.<\/p>\n<p>JUSTICE SAMUEL ALITO: He has his own way of saying things.<\/p>\n<p>But the criticism of the court \u2013 I mean, I want to be even-handed on this. The criticism of the court by President Biden and justices by President Biden and his administration was very harsh. And President Trump has been very harsh.<\/p>\n<p>JAN CRAWFORD: But when you \u2013 when you see the president of the United States \u2013 and you&#8217;re saying you&#8217;re following the law whichever way it leads you.<\/p>\n<p>But when you see the president of the United States talking about you and some of your colleagues as being part of his political MAGA movement, that you&#8217;re \u2013 you&#8217;re trying to make America great again, does that bother you?<\/p>\n<p>JUSTICE SAMUEL ALITO: Well, we are not part of any political movement. And we are not attempting to further any political agenda. We are trying to interpret the Constitution as best we can and apply it in the cases that come before us.<\/p>\n<p>(End VT)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: You can see more of Jan&#8217;s interview Monday on CBS Mornings and the CBS Evening News, and you can read all about it on CBSNews.com later today. Her preview piece drops at 3:00 p.m. Eastern.<\/p>\n<p>(ANNOUNCEMENTS)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with an update on that terrifying attempted hijacking of a Flydubai flight last week and an interview with Brett McGurk, the former national security official who worked to negotiate the release of the Israeli hostages and others being held by Hamas.<\/p>\n<p>Stay with us.<\/p>\n<p>(ANNOUNCEMENTS)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to &#8220;FACE THE NATION.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>We turn now to the Republican running for governor of Iowa, Zach Lahn. He joins us from Bell Plain.<\/p>\n<p>Good morning.<\/p>\n<p>ZACH LAHN (Republican Candidate for Iowa Governor): Good morning, Margaret.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: We look at diesel prices. They&#8217;re north of six bucks. President Trump&#8217;s trade war with Canada and China have made things expensive for farmers. You know that well in Iowa. Are the president&#8217;s policies a headwind for your party?<\/p>\n<p>ZACH LAHN: Well, I think when you talk about what&#8217;s going on with affordability for farmers \u2013 and, by the way, this is something we launched our campaign on in the beginning. You have to take a step back and really understand what&#8217;s been going on for decades in the agriculture industry, where we&#8217;ve seen consolidation after consolidation of businesses taking choice and competition away from farmers. We&#8217;ve reached monopoly stages there.<\/p>\n<p>And now what we&#8217;re seeing with some of the increased prices on diesel, it&#8217;s kind of just another one of these pieces that&#8217;s adding up to that. And we&#8217;ve been focused, you know, in the state on how do we cut the gas tax and other priorities to help farmers have more affordable fuel when they go into harvest.<\/p>\n<p>So, this has been a part of our campaign since the very beginning. And I really think farmers understand that for a long time they have been treated as price takers. And, really, the deck has been stacked against them. And now when you add in the higher cost of diesel, we really have a problem.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it \u2013 you just mentioned there, big ag. You are campaigning with a promise to break up big ag monopolies. You said you&#8217;re going to tax the heck out of Wall Street hedge funds that own farmland. Those sound more typically like progressive policies than conservative ones. How do you convince Iowa Republicans?<\/p>\n<p>ZACH LAHN: Well, I just say that, you know, breaking up monopolies was first done by Republicans. The Sherman Anti-Trust Law is Republican. Teddy Roosevelt broke up two of the biggest companies in existence. Monopoly is a failure of the free market. I think we forgot that in large part and now we&#8217;re paying the consequence for it. So, my priority is to increase the funding to the attorney general&#8217;s office, to take on these anti-competitive lawsuits, because farmers across the country are waiting for someone to take the first step here and really give them a fair deal.<\/p>\n<p>And so, I think that these are ideals of the Republican Party, but really they&#8217;re just the right ideas, the right thing to do.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: It&#8217;s an interesting position, though, given that the party has typically been very close to the agriculture industry. I know you have focused in, in your campaign, on the cancer rate in Iowa. It has the second highest cancer incidence in this country. You say it&#8217;s nitrates and pesticides, including glyphosate that caused it.<\/p>\n<p>President Trump signed an executive order to boost production of glyphosate-based herbicides. How do you reconcile those presidential decisions from the policy you have?<\/p>\n<p>ZACH LAHN: Well, I would just say first that I was one of the first people to come out and say that this was the wrong move to sign that executive order. I think that if we could give the president the advice on that, that he would understand that better.<\/p>\n<p>But what \u2013 we are focused on a campaign that&#8217;s focused on Iowa issues specifically. And this is something that Iowans are facing. We have the fastest rate of new cancer anywhere in the country, number one. And if you move out of the state of Iowa to say a state like Nevada, your chance of getting cancer in a given year goes down by 40 percent. These are very specific Iowa-based issues and we&#8217;ve been focused on them. High nitrate load in water is one of the top causes of colon cancer, bladder cancer, ovarian cancer, and we&#8217;ve got some of the highest levels in the country, if not the highest level.<\/p>\n<p>So, we are focused on providing incentives to farmers, real incentives, to adopt different types of practices, to allow them the ability to really change what they&#8217;re doing, to stop these products from getting into the streams in the first place, clean up our water at the source, and help farmers make sure that they&#8217;re not losing money by doing it, by providing real incentives that help them actually make money by adopting these practices. Because it really goes back to, farmers are operating on razor- thin margins right now. And the idea to experiment with something new is not very appealing when you could be the first in a line of five generations that loses your family farm.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. Right. And that&#8217;s one of the arguments for continuing to use this herbicide that has arguably ties to cancer is that it&#8217;s just frankly cheap.<\/p>\n<p>Your position \u2013<\/p>\n<p>ZACH LAHN: OK (ph).<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: You just said, if the president had more information, maybe he would make a different decision. Just for the record, RFK Jr., the HHS secretary, says he opposed it, told the president he opposed it, and the president did it on national security grounds. But he has been out there, the HHS secretary. He&#8217;s been campaigning for you. Many of your platform issues are very popular with the MAHA movement. Should America view your race as a test of Kennedy&#8217;s popularity?<\/p>\n<p>ZACH LAHN: Well, I think that Kennedy is very popular in Iowa. He&#8217;s very popular across the country. But it&#8217;s more so the principles that he represents, which are similar principles to what I represent.<\/p>\n<p>Look, we all want healthy kids. We want clean water. We want to make sure we have less medications for our kids. We want to solve these issues that have been causing a rise in, you know, chronic illness and autoimmune conditions, not just amongst kids but amongst adults. And we believe that food is medicine. That it&#8217;s the first line that you need to be looking at, is what food are we putting into our body?<\/p>\n<p>And this is one of the reasons that \u2013 a top priority of mine. My moon shot for the state of Iowa is to see a day in which 80 percent of the food served in our public schools is grown in the state of Iowa. And we can do that. It will take time, but this might be, you know, the only nutritious meal a kid has all day. And Iowa has the best farmland in the world. The best farmers in the world. We can do this and lead the country on it. And this is one of the first steps that we can take to really make sure that we&#8217;re cleaning up our food supply, we&#8217;re getting kids healthy food.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will continue to watch your race and see if Iowa, as you say, is an outlier here and maybe starting something new.<\/p>\n<p>Thank you, Zach Lahn, for your time today.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>(ANNOUNCEMENTS)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: We&#8217;re learning new details about the attempted hijacking of a FlyDubai flight over Saudi Arabia. Our Matt Gutman reports from Abu Dhabi.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN VT)<\/p>\n<p>MATT GUTMAN (voice over): CBS News has learned that Israel now believes the attack and suspected hijacking of Flight 1073 from Dubai to Tel Aviv was likely a lone wolf attack. Now for the first time, hero Captain Smit Machchhar tells his version of what the UAE is calling a terrorist attack when his copilot tried to crash the plane with 172 people on board into the Arabian Desert. He spoke by phone to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Saturday.<\/p>\n<p>CAPTAIN SMIT MACHCHHAR: While he was praying, out of respect, I was just looking at the front and not at the back. And suddenly there was a big blow to the back of my head. My first thought was that there was a catastrophic damage to the aircraft. After that, the blows kept coming, one after another. And that&#8217;s when I realized that it&#8217;s not the aircraft, it&#8217;s the other guy who was in the cockpit with me.<\/p>\n<p>MATT GUTMAN (voice over): The UAE says the copilot used a crash ax, found in the cockpit of most commercial airliners. Sources tell CBS News, co- pilot Hamam al-Hammami had been banned from flying for Oman&#8217;s national carrier after its government discovered he was visiting radical websites. That as Israeli authorities acknowledged they did receive a list of Flight 1073&#8217;s crew members, which reportedly included al-Hammami.<\/p>\n<p>As Israeli dentist Dr. Shota Musaev rushed to treat Captain Machchhar&#8217;s wounds, he also spoke to co-pilot al-Hammami.<\/p>\n<p>DR. SHOTA MUSAEV, HELPED CAPTAIN AFTER ATTACK: After two minutes he \u2013 he said to me, kill me. Kill me. And said to Yanif (ph), kill \u2013 kill me, sometimes. That&#8217;s \u2013 that&#8217;s it.<\/p>\n<p>MATT GUTMAN: He said, kill, kill me, multiple times?<\/p>\n<p>SHOTA MUSAEV: Yes. Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>MATT GUTMAN: That alleged attacker is now being interrogated here in the UAE, as both the UAE and Israel are facing questions about how a pilot with known extremist views was allowed to fly that route from Dubai to Tel Aviv.<\/p>\n<p>(END VT)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: That&#8217;s Matt Gutman reporting from Abu Dhabi.<\/p>\n<p>Three years ago this week, Hamas massacred 1,200 people in Israel and took 254 people hostage. As national security council coordinator under former President Biden, Brett McGurk, worked to secure their release, a challenge he writes about in his new book, &#8220;Brink.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>We spoke with McGurk last week.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN VT)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: You wrote that the U.S. had no clear warnings, nor did the Israelis, from what they told us. But you leave open the idea that there were missed signals. Was this a total intelligence failure?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK (Former White House National Security Council Coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa): So, we have really looked at \u2013 we did not have any \u2013 anything in our system that would have been a warning and indicator.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: No U.S. intelligence?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: No U.S. intelligence of a warning or indicator. I can&#8217;t speak to whether the Israelis \u2013 the Israelis still have, to this day, not had a commission of inquiry. We had the 9\/11 Commission that made a number of reforms that have helped keep our country safe since 9\/11. The Israelis still have not done that. I think they have \u2013 they should do that.<\/p>\n<p>But from what I, in dealing with all of these guys in Israel, security echelon, political echelon, I think they had an assumption that was deeply engrained that Hamas was deterred, assuaged, and was not about to do something massive on any scale like this. I think that was a false assumption in their system, failure of imagination, and it was tragic.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you about the Israeli prime minister. In February of 2024, you talk about a meeting you had with him. You were very focused on these hostages and trying to get them out. You said, &#8220;for more than 30 minutes, he never mentioned the hostages. Netanyahu was animated in discussing the military campaign and far less so when discussing the hostages, when he chose to discuss them at all.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Why? Why do you think that is?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: Netanyahu was focused far more on the military campaign and assuring Hamas can never retain power in Gaza. Believing the military campaign and the pressure on Hamas would lead to a deal that released all the hostages, whereas we were trying to focus on a phased deal that at least let&#8217;s \u2013 get some of the hostages out first. And Netanyahu always believed that more military pressure will actually deliver a better deal, whereas Sinwar believed more time would put more pressure on the U.S. and others to deliver him a better deal. That&#8217;s what makes this almost an impossible situation to deal with.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: You felt the U.S. was putting more value on those lives than the Israeli government did?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: The U.S. role in this, in all dimensions, we were trying to stop a war and get the hostages home. And the two were \u2013 the two were completely linked. And to reduce human suffering as much as possible in Gaza.<\/p>\n<p>You know, Netanyahu, I describe him as, obviously, very confident in his assumptions. And he has a brother who was killed in the Entebbe raid, very confident in terms of his belief and how to deal with these groups. And yet I believe a lot of times there were miscalculations.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan has publicly suggested that the U.S. focus was so much on the hostages that it was almost a trap, as he put it, in thinking that we can get to a ceasefire and a hostage deal, and other things were sublimated to that objective. I mean, in hindsight, do you share that feeling?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: The war would not have stopped without the hostages. I don&#8217;t \u2013 I don&#8217;t believe that.<\/p>\n<p>About a month into the war we had \u2013 we had a deal with Hamas. Not easy. I describe what it was like to get, for all women and children, it&#8217;s very clear, all women and children hostages are going to come out. And in exchange for a number of Palestinian prisoners. And we had a ceasefire for eight days. And about 100 hostages came out. Three of those women that did not come out, because on the eighth day Hamas said, we&#8217;re not going to release the younger women, actually. We released the young toddlers, like Abigail, the young American girl. We released the 80-year-old grandmothers. We&#8217;re going to hold on to the younger ones. They said, we can&#8217;t find them, which was completely untrue. So \u2013<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Wasn&#8217;t part of the excuse that they were military age too?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: No. Well, they said some \u2013 they claimed that.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: But they said, let&#8217;s keep a ceasefire and talk about the older men. And in the book I go through this night, midnight here in Washington, December 1st, and it&#8217;s a moral quandary. And this is what a hostage taker does. Hamas is as good as Iran is. They&#8217;re masters at this. They put the moral onus on the other side. Do you skip the younger women, start talking about older men, keep the ceasefire, or say, no, you broke the deal?<\/p>\n<p>(END VT)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: We&#8217;ll have more from Brett McGurk when we come back.<\/p>\n<p>(ANNOUNCEMENTS)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: We pick up our conversation with Brett McGurk about the negotiations with Hamas in 2024 to release the hostages and end the Gaza war.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN VT)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: All of what you were trying to do was happening at the same time as the American political cycle here, a presidential election. And there appeared to be unquestioning U.S. support for Israel and providing military support to Israel. And this became a political issue, particularly among Democrats. Then, the Republican candidates, including now President Donald Trump, were criticizing that you weren&#8217;t strong enough in support of Israel. How aware were you of the politics of the moment, as you&#8217;re making decisions like this?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: I&#8217;m very independent. So, I&#8217;ve worked with Republican presidents, Democratic presidents. I was a law clerk for two judges appointed by Republicans, one by a Democrat. And \u2013 but let me bring you into the Oval Office and kind of, in a scene in which I think encapsulates this very issue.<\/p>\n<p>April 4, 2024. President Biden, it&#8217;s his re-election. He&#8217;s on the campaign trail. Obviously frustrated about the situation. Unable to articulate, because the hostage talks have now collapsed. They recently collapsed for a number of reasons I go through in the book.<\/p>\n<p>He&#8217;s frustrated by being unable to point to how are we actually going to try to bring this to a close. We had a horrific air strike from the Israelis that killed nine aid workers with World Central Kitchen, Jose Andreas \u2013<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: An Israeli drone hit the clearly marked convoy.<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: And \u2013 which \u2013 which was so tragic \u2013 so horrific. And so, we have a call with \u2013 between Biden and Netanyahu. And Biden is just like, you know, completely fed up. And at the same time, however, Iran is planning to launch \u2013 we have intel \u2013 intelligence that Iran is about to launch a massive ballistic missile drone attack directly against Israel, which is totally unprecedented. And \u2013 which if those missiles get through, you&#8217;re talking about thousands of casualties.<\/p>\n<p>So, this is how kind of everything converges. And I think at that moment, if not for that impending missile attack, which we then had to deploy military forces. We built an unprecedented coalition with air partners, European partners and, of course, the U.S. military and General Kurilla (ph), who was kind of putting this together. If not for that, I think on that \u2013 in that moment, I think we would have taken some pretty draconian measures against Israel.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Really?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: Yes. I do not \u2013<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Draconian how? What do you mean?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: Well, I think we would have \u2013 you just mentioned cutting off weapons and other things. That was very much on the table. But also at that time in April, Congress bipartisan \u2013 a massive bipartisan majority approved a $26 million aid package for Israel, right in April, right in that moment. But the \u2013 the focus very quickly shifts to, how do we defend Israel from this \u2013 from this missile attack. It ended up being 120 ballistic missiles, 170 drones, 30 cruise missiles, all launched to land at the same time.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: But on the World Central Kitchen event, the \u2013 people remember that. There was outrage around that. You wrote that, &#8220;President Biden told Bibi Netanyahu,&#8221; the prime minister, &#8220;that he could, in theory, cut Israel from military aid at a finger snap \u2013<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Leaving Israel on its own. You think I&#8217;m Santa Claus? No Santa in Israel, pal?&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: But he didn&#8217;t. He didn&#8217;t cut.<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: Well, I mean, we \u2013<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Did he actually mean that as a threat?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: We selectively \u2013 we talked about it in that \u2013 in the Oval Office around that time. We selectively, after that call, the president stopped all sales and deliveries of heavy payload munitions, 2,000-pound bombs. We stopped \u2013<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he delayed them, ultimately.<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: We didn&#8217;t deliver them and we didn&#8217;t approve any other sales. President Trump reversed that immediately after coming into office.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: It was such a public debate at the time about America&#8217;s role in the world, the standards America is held to, and whether America is complicit in how our weapons are used. And under the Leahy Law, as you know, you know, countries that receive U.S. weapons have to avoid committing human rights violations or risk losing the weapons supply.<\/p>\n<p>Blinken said \u2013<\/p>\n<p>ANTONY BLINKEN (Former Secretary of State): It was reasonable to access that in certain instances Israel acted in ways that are not consistent with international humanitarian law.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: And that &#8220;Israeli civilian harm mitigation efforts were inconsistent, ineffective, and inadequate.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Do you agree with that State Department memo?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: No aid to any country is unconditional, including \u2013 including to Israel. And \u2013 but security assistance is a \u2013 is a complex, multi-institutional, multi-branch endeavor. And again, these \u2013 most of these appropriations were appropriated by massive, bipartisan majorities in Congress at the time. But \u2013 and the \u2013 and the State Department has a role and the Pentagon has an important role.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. He was saying hit the brakes on deliveries. Or reexamine (ph).<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: Again, we hit the brakes on some \u2013 on some deliveries, again, selectively. But to have a broad-based stoppage of support, again, for Israel, at a time \u2013 I don&#8217;t know what the timeframe was for that statement, but I can \u2013<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: It was in May, in 2024.<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: So, in May \u2013 yes, so in May, we just had the largest ballistic missile and drone attack ever in history. We helped the Israelis defeat it.<\/p>\n<p>We say to Netanyahu, Biden&#8217;s quote in that meeting is, &#8220;I just saved your ass.&#8221; We&#8217;re getting back to the hostage deal, OK?<\/p>\n<p>We spent the month of May putting together a detailed, four-page, three- phase agreement, single space, every detail there. We go to the Israelis and to Netanyahu and say, we need you to sign up. And it went very far in the direction of Hamas. Frankly, it was a better deal for Hamas than what they have right now.<\/p>\n<p>And Netanyahu, on May 27th, signed onto that deal. On May 31st, because what were we doing in May? On May 31st, President Biden laid out that deal to the world in a speech. And he said, Israel has accepted this deal. Hamas, say, yes, let&#8217;s end this war. The U.N. Security Council endorses that deal. It&#8217;s May 31st.<\/p>\n<p>What happens? In early June, after this is on the table, we can stop the war right now if Hamas says yes. Khamenei, supreme leader of Iran, gives a defiant speech praising October 7th, and basically Iran is telling Hamas to not \u2013 to not compromise in any of \u2013 of the terms. Hezbollah launches its largest attack of the war, 250 rockets into northern Israel. This is \u2013 when we have a ceasefire deal on the table.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: We don&#8217;t get an answer from Hamas until July 2nd, almost five weeks later. And they put all sorts of things in it that set the talks back.<\/p>\n<p>So, I say this because we were working to end this crisis and end this war. And if you want \u2013 in May, June, and we had the deal on the table to do it.<\/p>\n<p>My approach would have \u2013 is, this deal is on the table to stop the war. All pressure, everything, public, everything else, has to come down on Hamas and their enablers to say yes to end this deal \u2013 or to end this war.<\/p>\n<p>But Hamas did not say &#8220;yes.&#8221; and they kept stringing this out. And they would put an issue on the table, then Israel would take a hard position. But that&#8217;s what was happening in May. And if you go to that \u2013 you know, Biden goes to the world and says, this is the deal. He had a phone call with I think 18 heads of state because these hostages are from countries all around the world. They all said \u2013 they called on Hamas to take the deal, and Hamas did not take the deal. I mean we were working at that time to end the war through a deal. And I think, again, all vectors of pressure should have been on Sinwar to say yes.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: But you&#8217;re not saying \u2013<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: And the war would have stopped.<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: You&#8217;re not saying that the Democratic Party pressure and calling out compliance with U.S. law was enabling Hamas? That&#8217;s not what you&#8217;re saying?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: No, no, no. I \u2013 but I&#8217;m not \u2013 and also not \u2013<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: But you&#8217;re saying it&#8217;s almost like naive?<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: And I&#8217;m also not getting into internal party debates. I&#8217;ve never been a part of that. I&#8217;ll let \u2013 I&#8217;ll let political parties have their debates. Not my role at all. I come back to the question, how do you end this crisis?<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Uh-huh.<\/p>\n<p>BRETT MCGURK: And I think the record shows, if you just stop American support for Israel, that is not going end to the crisis. It&#8217;s going to make it worse.<\/p>\n<p>(END VT)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Our full conversation&#8217;s on our website, facethenation.com, and our YouTube page.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>(ANNOUNCEMENTS)<\/p>\n<p>MARGARET BRENNAN: That&#8217;s it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week. For &#8220;FACE THE NATION,&#8221; I&#8217;m Margaret Brennan.<\/p>\n<p>(ANNOUNCEMENTS)<\/p>\n<section class=\"content__body--footer\">\n<\/section>\n<p>  <!-- data-recirc-source=\"chartbeat\" --><\/p>\n<aside class=\"component list recirculation component--type-recirculation  component--type-recirculation-collection\">\n<div class=\"component__heading-wrapper recirc\">\n<h3 class=\"component__title\">Face The Nation Transcripts<br \/>\n                          <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cbsnews.com\/feature\/face-the-nation-transcripts\/?intcid=CNI-00-10aaa3a\" class=\"component__view-more component__view-more--lg\" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=\"\"><br \/>\n                More<br \/>\n                <svg viewbox=\"0 0 32 32\" class=\"icon__caret-right\" aria-hidden=\"true\">\n                  <use xlink:href=\"#icon-caret-down\"\/>\n                <\/svg><br \/>\n              <\/a><br \/>\n                      <\/h3>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<div class=\"component__item-recirc-block\">\n<ul>\n<li id=\"inline-recirc-item--id-24d961ff-1b61-4ca5-afde-cd8e6a0369b5\" class=\"card-recirc item\">\n                <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cbsnews.com\/news\/zach-lahn-iowa-gop-nominee-governor-face-the-nation-transcript-10-04-2026\/?intcid=CNI-00-10aaa3a\" class=\"item__anchor\" draggable=\"false\" ondragstart=\"return false;\" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=\"\"><\/p>\n<article>\n                        <svg>\n                            <use xlink:href=\"#recirc-cbs-news\"\/>\n                        <\/svg><\/p>\n<h4>Transcript: Zach Lahn, Iowa GOP nominee for governor, on &#8220;Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,&#8221; Oct. 4, 2026<\/h4>\n<\/article>\n<div class=\"thumb\">\n<p>                        <span class=\"img item__thumb item__thumb--crop-0 \"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com\/hub\/i\/r\/2026\/10\/04\/dc084bf4-0bec-4d49-b139-cbe6d756d1c7\/thumbnail\/96x96\/f5e815d6c58b7f6cbcc9e82144c17722\/1791131997854.png#\" alt=\"1791131997854.png \" layout=\"fill\" height=\"96\" width=\"96\" class=\" lazyload\" srcset=\"https:\/\/assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com\/hub\/i\/r\/2026\/10\/04\/dc084bf4-0bec-4d49-b139-cbe6d756d1c7\/thumbnail\/96x96\/f5e815d6c58b7f6cbcc9e82144c17722\/1791131997854.png 1x\" loading=\"lazy\"\/><\/span>\n                    <\/div>\n<p>                <\/a>\n            <\/li>\n<li id=\"inline-recirc-item--id-e2f48ea7-51ae-4fd0-978b-dee20f40b0f3\" class=\"card-recirc item\">\n                <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cbsnews.com\/news\/chris-wright-energy-secretary-face-the-nation-transcript-10-04-2026\/?intcid=CNI-00-10aaa3a\" class=\"item__anchor\" draggable=\"false\" ondragstart=\"return false;\" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=\"\"><\/p>\n<article>\n                        <svg>\n                            <use xlink:href=\"#recirc-cbs-news\"\/>\n                        <\/svg><\/p>\n<h4>Transcript: Energy Secretary Chris Wright on &#8220;Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,&#8221; Oct. 4, 2026<\/h4>\n<\/article>\n<div class=\"thumb\">\n<p>                        <span class=\"img item__thumb item__thumb--crop-0 \"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/assets3.cbsnewsstatic.com\/hub\/i\/r\/2026\/10\/04\/607539bf-8be8-4807-bc14-9a3dca72fee3\/thumbnail\/96x96\/f82668d69db12cb0d427b05643152f52\/1791129401011.png#\" alt=\"1791129401011.png \" layout=\"fill\" height=\"96\" width=\"96\" class=\" lazyload\" srcset=\"https:\/\/assets3.cbsnewsstatic.com\/hub\/i\/r\/2026\/10\/04\/607539bf-8be8-4807-bc14-9a3dca72fee3\/thumbnail\/96x96\/f82668d69db12cb0d427b05643152f52\/1791129401011.png 1x\" loading=\"lazy\"\/><\/span>\n                    <\/div>\n<p>                <\/a>\n            <\/li>\n<li id=\"inline-recirc-item--id-6d756458-a68c-438b-b4fb-f2a9a7890871\" class=\"card-recirc item\">\n                <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cbsnews.com\/news\/brett-mcgurk-face-the-nation-transcript-10-04-2026\/?intcid=CNI-00-10aaa3a\" class=\"item__anchor\" draggable=\"false\" ondragstart=\"return false;\" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=\"\"><\/p>\n<article>\n                        <svg>\n                            <use xlink:href=\"#recirc-cbs-news\"\/>\n                        <\/svg><\/p>\n<h4>Transcript: Brett McGurk on &#8220;Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,&#8221; Oct. 4, 2026<\/h4>\n<\/article>\n<div class=\"thumb\">\n<p>                        <span class=\"img item__thumb item__thumb--crop-0 \"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com\/hub\/i\/r\/2026\/10\/04\/ada6c8f6-a62e-4920-b3b7-bc5d70835fbd\/thumbnail\/96x96\/aee94dba6248d2bf7884047e23cb8d46\/1791126788543.png#\" alt=\"1791126788543.png \" layout=\"fill\" height=\"96\" width=\"96\" class=\" lazyload\" srcset=\"https:\/\/assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com\/hub\/i\/r\/2026\/10\/04\/ada6c8f6-a62e-4920-b3b7-bc5d70835fbd\/thumbnail\/96x96\/aee94dba6248d2bf7884047e23cb8d46\/1791126788543.png 1x\" loading=\"lazy\"\/><\/span>\n                    <\/div>\n<p>                <\/a>\n            <\/li>\n<li id=\"inline-recirc-item--id-c8fa604b-1f82-470c-91e2-737b3a3a9630\" class=\"card-recirc item\">\n                <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cbsnews.com\/news\/mark-kelly-arizona-democrat-face-the-nation-transcript-10-04-2026\/?intcid=CNI-00-10aaa3a\" class=\"item__anchor\" draggable=\"false\" ondragstart=\"return false;\" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=\"\"><\/p>\n<article>\n                        <svg>\n                            <use xlink:href=\"#recirc-cbs-news\"\/>\n                        <\/svg><\/p>\n<h4>Transcript: Sen. Mark Kelly on &#8220;Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,&#8221; Oct. 4, 2026<\/h4>\n<\/article>\n<div class=\"thumb\">\n<p>                        <span class=\"img item__thumb item__thumb--crop-0 \"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com\/hub\/i\/r\/2026\/10\/04\/c4735c5f-f5d3-45c6-b37e-0e0845bb0f35\/thumbnail\/96x96\/455e69f9cb562aee7bf65d3fd6722ad1\/1791125196109.png#\" alt=\"1791125196109.png \" layout=\"fill\" height=\"96\" width=\"96\" class=\" lazyload\" srcset=\"https:\/\/assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com\/hub\/i\/r\/2026\/10\/04\/c4735c5f-f5d3-45c6-b37e-0e0845bb0f35\/thumbnail\/96x96\/455e69f9cb562aee7bf65d3fd6722ad1\/1791125196109.png 1x\" loading=\"lazy\"\/><\/span>\n                    <\/div>\n<p>                <\/a>\n            <\/li>\n<li id=\"inline-recirc-item--id-90bdf2da-9932-4ae7-91b5-9ec7af277b2d\" class=\"card-recirc item\">\n                <a href=\"https:\/\/www.cbsnews.com\/news\/face-the-nation-full-transcript-09-27-2026\/?intcid=CNI-00-10aaa3a\" class=\"item__anchor\" draggable=\"false\" ondragstart=\"return false;\" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=\"\"><\/p>\n<article>\n                        <svg>\n                            <use xlink:href=\"#recirc-cbs-news\"\/>\n                        <\/svg><\/p>\n<h4>Full transcript of &#8220;Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,&#8221; Sept. 27, 2026<\/h4>\n<\/article>\n<div class=\"thumb\">\n<p>                        <span class=\"img item__thumb item__thumb--crop-1 \"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"https:\/\/assets3.cbsnewsstatic.com\/hub\/i\/r\/2026\/09\/25\/426e326e-7859-47f2-9be5-b95d79633448\/thumbnail\/96x96g1\/76cb7681442c2b3935c197ed01222d50\/28-41-20260925-085500-ftn-masoud-pezeshkian-interview-ots-liveu-2-1-mxf.png#\" alt=\"28-41-20260925-085500-ftn-masoud-pezeshkian-interview-ots-liveu-2-1-mxf.png \" layout=\"fill\" height=\"96\" width=\"96\" class=\" lazyload\" srcset=\"https:\/\/assets3.cbsnewsstatic.com\/hub\/i\/r\/2026\/09\/25\/426e326e-7859-47f2-9be5-b95d79633448\/thumbnail\/96x96g1\/76cb7681442c2b3935c197ed01222d50\/28-41-20260925-085500-ftn-masoud-pezeshkian-interview-ots-liveu-2-1-mxf.png 1x\" loading=\"lazy\"\/><\/span>\n                    <\/div>\n<p>                <\/a>\n            <\/li>\n<\/ul><\/div>\n<div class=\"component__item-recirc-block\">\n<p><h3 class=\"component__title\">Go deeper with The Free Press<\/h3>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/aside>\n<section class=\"content__body--footer\">\n      <!-- tags --><\/p>\n<section class=\"content__tags\">\n<p class=\"content__tags__label\">In:<\/p>\n<\/section>\n<\/section><\/div>\n<p><script async src=\"https:\/\/pagead2.googlesyndication.com\/pagead\/js\/adsbygoogle.js?client=ca-pub-6606220950177433\"\r\n     crossorigin=\"anonymous\"><\/script>\r\n<!-- ItShrt World News -->\r\n<ins class=\"adsbygoogle\"\r\n     style=\"display:block\"\r\n     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