Full transcript of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Aug. 16, 2026
On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Ed O’Keefe:
- Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear, a Democrat
- Rep. Don Bacon, Republican of Nebraska
- Anthony Salvanto, CBS News executive director of elections and surveys
- Pennsylvania state Rep. Chris Rabb
- Wall Street Journal reporter Sabrina Rodriguez, NOTUS reporter Paul Kane, The Atlantic staff writer Toluse Olorunnipa and Anthony Salvanto, CBS News executive director of elections and surveys
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2026 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
ED O’KEEFE: I’m Ed O’Keefe in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: Socialism divides the Democratic Party. But are mainstream Democrats coming on board? And is President Trump being too dismissive of voters’ concerns over the economy?
With about 11 weeks to go until midterm Election Day, Democrats continue their soul-searching when it comes to picking candidates to face voters in the fall. Will they unite behind this message?
(Begin VT)
ABDUL EL-SAYED (D-Michigan Senatorial Candidate): Money out of?
AUDIENCE: Politics!
ABDUL EL-SAYED: Money in your?
AUDIENCE: Pocket!
ABDUL EL-SAYED: Medicare for?
AUDIENCE: All!
(End VT)
ED O’KEEFE: Or will they keep closer to the middle?
Either way, the president has found his rallying cry.
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): They want to make us a communist country. They have skipped socialism. The communists want to turn America into a Third World country, into a hellhole of crime and filth.
(End VT)
ED O’KEEFE: But is that message doing enough to address voters’ concerns about high inflation and gas prices?
We will hear from Kentucky Governor and potential Democratic 2028 hopeful Andy Beshear. Pennsylvania Democratic Socialist congressional candidate Chris Rabb will also join us.
Plus, insights into how Mr. Trump’s agenda is playing in the heartland from Nebraska Republican Congressman Don Bacon.
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation. Margaret is out today.
After weeks of high-stakes primaries that pitted moderates versus progressive or socialist-backed Democratic candidates and raised questions about the future direction of the party, we wanted to know what Democrats and voters overall make of the future of the Democratic Party.
We’re doing this in part because history would suggest they’re set to win back control of at least some part of Congress this fall. And the elections come amid lingering concerns about the way the economy works, as our new CBS News poll shows 60 percent of all Americans say the U.S. economic system is unfair, and 73 percent believe the gap between the richest Americans and the middle class is increasing.
So we begin with Kentucky Democratic Governor Andy Beshear, who joins us from the capital city of Frankfort.
Good morning, Governor. Thank you for being here.
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR (D-Kentucky): Good morning. Thanks for having me.
ED O’KEEFE: Of course.
So our new CBS News poll out this morning finds 58 percent of Democrats have a positive view of socialism, and just 32 percent have a positive view of capitalism. What do you make of that?
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR: What I make of it is that people are struggling. They’re struggling because the cost of groceries is too high. The cost of gas is too high. It’s too hard to see a doctor, and when you do, the cost of that is too high as well.
They’re not asking for a lot. They just want to go to work, make a good living, be able to raise their kids, buy a home before they’re 40, take their family on the same vacation they went on as kids. And, right now, they’re seeing a system that doesn’t work for them.
Now, I believe socialism is a failed experiment, but I do believe that we need to get results for the American people. And I think, when you look at Democratic governors, you see those results. I have been proud to create more jobs than any other governor in our history.
The average wage of a new job in Kentucky this year is over $32 an hour. We’re building affordable housing in Western Kentucky and in Eastern Kentucky on top of abandoned coal mines with solar panels on the top, so they’re affordable to live in too. People just want to see results, want to believe that life can get better.
ED O’KEEFE: The poll also finds rank-and-file Democrats want leaders to be pushing for making big changes, not smaller ones, even if they’re easier to do, also says they want to feel like the party is, as you said, fighting for them.
What is then…
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR: Yes, I think people…
ED O’KEEFE: Well, what I’m curious about is what – given they’re looking for big ideas, what would be your biggest, boldest idea that you’re promoting these days?
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR: Well, I will give you two, because people want you to fix the darn economy, and they want you to fix the darn government.
On the economy, it is time for an aspirational investment in housing that can bring down the cost of – of especially first-time homeownership. People can actually see that progress all over the country. We ought to tie the federal dollars to speed. You’ve got to break ground, and you’ve got to do it quickly. Get through the overregulation and the NIMBY-ism.
But I tell you what. People also think this government is broken. So, a fix the darn government constitutional amendment, it is time. It should outlaw partisan redistricting and enshrine part of the Voting Rights Act right there in the Constitution. It should create term limits for Congress and the Supreme Court.
No more gaming those appointments. It should also overturn Citizens United, and I think call for direct elections of the president and the vice president. That could actually make things work, a big idea that would, yes, change government, but in a way enshrined in the constitution where people would know it’s going to get better.
ED O’KEEFE: I didn’t realize you support abolishing the Electoral College, if you’re saying direct election of the president and vice president.
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR: Yes, I have said it a number of times.
And it’s because, in Kentucky, we will never see a candidate for president or vice president unless they’re from here. Why? Because people just expect that it’ll go one way or the other. It’s the idea that someone would get elected not just knowing about seven states, but having to earn votes all over the United States. I certainly think it’s time.
ED O’KEEFE: Speaking of presidential candidates from Kentucky, you told our colleague Aaron Navarro recently your decision on whether to run for president comes after your role as chairman of the Democratic Governors Association ends in December.
You’re traveling the country trying to get Democrats elected into governorships. You’re appearing on programs like this one to get your name out there. I’m curious, what’s left to decide?
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR: Well, I haven’t made any final decision on that, but I am traveling the country because we’re going to elect Democratic governors in places that people aren’t expecting.
We’re up in Iowa, in Ohio. We’re fighting hard in Georgia and Nevada. We have great candidates. Even places like Alabama, we saw Democratic primary turnout double, double. I have never seen that before. So I’m excited about what we’re seeing.
For me, I just refuse to leave a broken country to my kids or to anyone else’s. We cannot allow Donald Trump’s presidency to be normalized, for people to think that’s the way that it’s supposed to be. And whatever my role is moving forward, I just want to make sure that we can bring this country back together and then get results for the American people.
The two biggest challenges we face are the level of division and the belief that the American dream is no longer real. We’ve got to make sure we address them both.
ED O’KEEFE: The Democratic Party on Saturday officially set its 2028 presidential primary calendar, shakes it up a bit, and puts six states now in the mix to be voting before March of 2028.
I hear you’ve been particularly active in South Carolina, but I’m curious, more broadly, what does this new schedule do to help or hurt the candidacy of a moderate Democrat like yourself?
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR: Well, I consider myself a pragmatist. I get things done.
You know, I stand up for all my convictions, having vetoed every anti- choice, every anti-LGBTQ+, every anti-union bill that’s come to my desk. But, at the same time, I consider myself a pro-business Democrat, because business creates good jobs that can pay good benefits that can make that American dream possible. My job is just to get results for the people of Kentucky.
This schedule, I think, is going to make any candidate get out and earn it. We – I’m happy that there are two Southern states, in South Carolina and Virginia, because, if the Democratic Party is going to be competitive in the future, we have to be competitive in places like Kentucky, in places like the South.
You know, for too long, Southern Democrats have been overlooked, left out, sometimes even looked down upon. But look at what we’ve done. We now have three Southern Democratic governors. Georgia gave us two Southern Democratic U.S. senators, and Roy Cooper in North Carolina is about to be a third. Keisha Lance Bottoms is going to be the next governor of Georgia.
We have scrapped our way back to the table, and I believe that – that the DNC saw the importance of – of the South. I mean, you certainly have to win in the Midwest, which is Michigan. I think Nevada shows how important our Hispanic and Latino population are.
In the end, this says you got to win in big states, in small states, in all regions of the country. It’ll make sure that we have a nominee that could be a good president for the entire United States.
ED O’KEEFE: I want to take you to an issue that animates the left of the Democratic Party especially, but something you also referenced, and that is health care, but, more specifically, the concept of Medicare for all.
Back in 2019, you suggested that that can mean 100 different things in 100 different ways and that, ultimately, in your state, every Kentuckian needs access to affordable, accessible health care “And I believe the private sector often provides that type of health care.”
You still believe that, or has your thinking shifted at all on whether or not some kind of more government-backed public option should be out there in a bigger way?
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR: Well, like I said, I’m a pragmatist. My goal is to get results in the next month and in the next year.
And what I see right now is a health care system where costs are spiraling, and so the solutions that I see that government can participate in are direct negotiation of drug prices. Given that Medicaid and Medicare are pretty much the biggest purchasers that are out there, they should secure a lower price, and open that up to everyone covered on any type of plan or no type of plan at all.
I think that there is a role for government to bring down prices in health care, and they can do so quickly. We also need more transparency. Now, the idea that one hospital charges something twice as much as another hospital in the same town, but you might not know, is a problem for consumers.
It shouldn’t be like buying a car, a sticker price, where you’re not sure exactly how much it’s going to cost. It should be open so people can make the right decisions and get the best-quality health care at the best price.
But let me say I do believe that health care is a basic human right, and so I’m willing to have conversations with anyone who agrees with that. You know, in my faith, Jesus said a doctor is for the sick.
And look at what Republicans are doing. Their big ugly bill could shutter 35 rural hospitals in Kentucky, fire 20,000 health care workers, but, more than that, create a system where a pregnant woman in Kentucky might have to drive an hour-and-a-half or two hours just to give birth. That’s really wrong.
ED O’KEEFE: So you’re open to conversations about Medicare for all, it sounds like, but not necessarily sold on the whole concept.
I got to ask you, in our remaining moments here, you have been writing letters and trying to get updates on the status of Senator Mitch McConnell. Have you heard anything back from his office and how he’s doing?
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR: I have heard absolutely nothing back from Mitch McConnell.
And while I do hope that he is getting better – I have known him my entire life. I wish him no harm. I actually wish him good health. His boss are the people of Kentucky. And this is why the Senate, the Republican-controlled Senate, feels so broken. They feel like they’re not accountable to anyone.
All he needs to do is call into this show for two minutes or FOX News for two minutes or do a video for two minutes to the people he’s supposed to serve. But you know what? He absolutely refuses to do it.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR: And then John Thune, as the leader of the Senate, you’ve got a duty to make sure all of your senators have the capacity to serve. And what is he saying? Not my job.
That’s not surprising. None of them will do their job right now and stand up to a president…
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR: … that is running over the Constitution at every turn.
ED O’KEEFE: Well, we’ll take a call from Senator McConnell if he’d like to make it.
We appreciate you being here this morning. Sounds like you’re thinking about running for president, for sure. Governor Andy Beshear of Kentucky, thanks again.
Face the Nation will be back in a minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O’KEEFE: We turn now to Republican Congressman Don Bacon. He joins us from Omaha, Nebraska.
Good morning, Congressman.
And we understand it is your birthday. So, happy birthday, and thank you for spending part of it with us.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON (R-Nebraska): Good morning to you.
And yeah, I’m 9 years old and dog years, so that makes me feel better.
ED O’KEEFE: OK. Well, if you could do the math, you’ll figure that out.
(LAUGHTER)
ED O’KEEFE: But we appreciate you being here.
I want to start this morning with something the president had to say on Friday about the state of the economy and the state of the war with Iran. Take a listen.
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): For you to pay a tiny little bit more for your gasoline, just remember you’re doing it so that a very evil country cannot have – a country, really, it’s the number one state sponsor of terror in the world.
We don’t want to have them have a nuclear weapon. So, remember that when you have to pay a little bit more. You’re at $4. It’s OK. I mean, it’s – I’m not – I’m not – I will never apologize. I did the right thing.
(End VT)
ED O’KEEFE: I know you’re not running for reelection this fall, Congressman, but in the context of the midterm elections, is the president’s justifications for gas prices across the country helpful to Republicans on the ballot this fall?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: I think here, in the tape you just played, he was being honest.
And I think he was setting maybe false expectations in the previous months during the initial, you know, parts of this campaign with Iran, saying, we’re going to get a deal tomorrow, we’re going to get a deal tomorrow, and – and not.
This is going to be a longer-term fight, and I think he needed to set appropriate and honest expectations here. Iran has killed about 1,000 Americans. It was the – has been the world’s leading exporter of terror. In fact, 600 Americans were killed in Iraq from primarily those very dangerous roadside bombs that Iran made and sent to all the terrorists in Iraq.
And I just think it was important for him to level with the American people. This is going to be a tough fight. And we do not – we cannot allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon. I don’t think we should allow Iran to kill 1,000 Americans. This should probably been done a long time ago.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: But I think with the – he started out this whole war with, this is going to be an easy fight. We’re going to be done here. It’s going to take a month, two months. OK, we’re going to get a deal tomorrow.
And I think that that – those false expectations hurt him, and it’s hurt the – the favorability of what we’re trying to do here.
ED O’KEEFE: But do you get a sense he feels the pain of Americans, the economic pain?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: He doesn’t communicate it well.
As you mentioned, he makes light of the affordability question. And we do have an affordability problem. And I think – you know, I think a better way for him to frame it, we had 9 percent inflation under Joe Biden. Of course, it went down towards the end of his presidency. But the Americans have never recovered from that. And, once again, inflation is slightly higher than wages.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: So, I think most Americans are feeling the pain at the grocery store and the gas.
So, I think it’s better just to acknowledge, hey, this is a problem, and we got – we got to work towards getting wages climbing faster than inflation.
But one of the ways we could do that is to change his tariff policy. Tariffs have hurt inflation. It’s not only just the war with Iran and gas. Tariffs have also had an impact here. And I would encourage the president to review the tariff policy. Global tariffs, it ends up being a tax on consumers, and we’re paying more because of it.
ED O’KEEFE: Well, you know, the fate of the USS Abraham Lincoln has been in the news in recent days. It is now expected to return to port after a more than nine-month deployment amid concerns about living conditions aboard the vessel.
The president was also asked about this on Friday. Take a listen to this, what he said.
(Begin VT)
QUESTION: Have the deployments gone on too long?
(CROSSTALK)
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: No, no, no, not nearly long enough.
(End VT)
ED O’KEEFE: Not nearly long enough, the deployment has been, he said. Was the president wrong to be dismissive about the concerns aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: I think so, Ed.
It would have been better to acknowledge, hey, long deployments are hard. You know, I did one year in Iraq. I had another three – three other deployments to Iraq or the area that were shorter. But when I was in Iraq for a year, there were Marines and soldiers there for 18 months.
So I think it’s better to acknowledge, hey, this is hard on the families, it’s hard on the service members. Thank them for being willing to defend our country and doing these 10-month deployments if you’re on an aircraft carrier. I think that would have been a much more – better way of addressing this issue.
It is hard on families., We should acknowledge that. But we’ve done it for previous wars and deployments, and we’ll have to do so in the future. I think that’s a better way to phrase it.
ED O’KEEFE: The USS George Washington is now headed into that region as the Lincoln comes back or heads to port.
Do you think there needs to be some kind of congressional investigation or review of the last nine months and what was going on aboard that carrier?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: Yes, we should have oversight. We should bring in secretary of the Navy and/or the commander, the – the service chief of the Navy, and have them explain to us the truth on that.
But I – I served on an aircraft carrier as an Air Force guy during my 30 years in the Air Force, and we had some of these incidences when I was on the carrier. This was back in 1996, when we weren’t – weren’t at war.
We were doing the north – the southern no-fly zone for Iraq. We were trying to deter Iran, but we had a couple members jump overboard and commit suicide while I was on that deployment. So, these incidences, they’re terrible. They’re sad. But it’s – but it has happened previously, and, unfortunately, likely in the future as well.
ED O’KEEFE: You know, we’re about 5.5 months into the war.
And, earlier this month, you argued Iran believes they can drag the president along. Looking at the battlefield as it currently stands, has the U.S. lost its advantage in this war?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: We still have the advantage, but we have to be patient. And I think that that was the point I was trying to make when I said that Iran was dragging the president.
When the – when Iran hears the president say, we’re going to get a deal today, we’re going to get a deal tomorrow, they want a deal, Iran is – doesn’t think that way. What they were hearing was weakness. The president should say less. Keep the pressure on.
This blockade is crippling to Iran, and we need to keep that blockade ironclad, not let a single ship enter or leave the ports out of Iran. Their economy is in tatters. The leadership there is struggling. Keep the pressure on and say less, that would be my advice to the president.
ED O’KEEFE: And how do you assess the Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth’s performance during all this?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: Well, I think he’s followed the wishes of the president.
I do have concerns that the president said he was not aware that we had a shortage of weapons like cruise missiles and Patriots. That’s not a good – good thing. I think that’s the number one issue. We’ve conducted these operations, and it’s – appears, though there’s been a lack of transparency – I think we’ll get some transparency when we go back to the – Washington D.C. here on the 31st of August.
But there’s a big concern for many of us that, when you have a shortage of Patriots, shortage of cruise missiles, and other weapons, that this has not been managed well, or in the fact that the president claims he did not know. So, that – that’s a concern.
ED O’KEEFE: Real quick, in our new CBS News poll, more registered voters describe the Republican Party as extreme more than anything else, 58 percent. You’re one of the few mainstream moderates left in the House Republican Congress. Like I said, you’re retiring. You’re not running for re-election this year.
But what do you think Republican leaders could do to meaningfully tack the party back to the center and reverse those numbers?
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: Well, I became a Republican when I was 13 years old. When Ronald Reagan ran in 1976, he lost to Gerald Ford, but he won four years later.
His philosophy, I believe, is still popular. And there’s – I have – I have pushed back in a few areas. Republicans have never supported tariffs since World War II. And, suddenly, we’re – now we’re the party of tariffs. And it’s not working, I don’t think, in the Midwest. So I think Republicans could reclaim the middle if we push back more on tariffs.
Also, 70 percent of Americans support Ukraine. And yet the president…
ED O’KEEFE: Congress…
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: … has not been that supportive. So there’s some areas here that we could push back on the White House, and also be where most Republicans…
ED O’KEEFE: All right.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: … or most Americans are at.
ED O’KEEFE: Congressman, thank you so much.
REPRESENTATIVE DON BACON: Thank you.
ED O’KEEFE: Happy birthday. We appreciate it.
And we will be right back with a lot more face the Nation. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O’KEEFE: For more from our new poll, we’re joined by our executive director of elections and surveys, Anthony Salvanto.
Anthony, great to see you.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Good morning.
ED O’KEEFE: It’s a really interesting survey.
So give us the big picture. These recent Democratic primaries, they were close, especially out in the Midwest. Are Democrats really split over socialism?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: So let me start with the big picture among all Americans, because most Americans say they think the free market is a good thing. They have a more positive view of capitalism than they do of socialism, and they’re net negative on socialism.
But, yes, by comparison, there is relatively more support or favorability of socialism among Democrats, not all Democrats, but it is a majority, and higher than compared to capitalism. Now, you ask people what that means, because these are just labels.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: And Democrats tend to describe socialism in terms of outcomes. Well, it’s fairness. Well, there’s more equality. And they’re concerned about income inequality.
Other people, other Americans describe it as government control, and that’s in a more negative context. So, you can look at polling going back to the ’30s, going to the ’60s. There’s always been these discussions of socialism. But they do tend to come out in tougher economic times.
And even in this poll, we find especially young people saying like they feel opportunities are lesser now than they were for previous generations, that it’s harder to get ahead, that the system doesn’t work in a fair way. All that’s the bigger context.
ED O’KEEFE: So, as you rightly point out, this is a resurgence or reemergence of socialism. Certainly, we have seen that this summer. How is it then splitting the Democratic Party specifically?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: So, one interesting thing is that it is college-educated Democrats who are relatively more favorable for socialism. And, yes, they have even slightly higher incomes. We have seen some of that too in the votes that you mentioned or the vote patterns in these states.
What could be happening there is a sort of relative way, relative expectations. Maybe they have got a little more money, but it doesn’t buy them as much as they thought. And the other part of it is, you ask people, is the Democratic Party as progressive as you would like it to be, and that is also pretty even.
ED O’KEEFE: Even as they have this argument amongst themselves, ultimately, they have got to go find swing voters, maybe even Republican voters to vote for at least some of these Democrats if they have any hope of retaking control of Congress.
So when you ask Americans overall about socialism and how the Democratic Party is sorting itself, what do they say?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: So the big question here, I think, is, what are the Democrats offering that’s in contrast to the Trump economy? And, of course, they want this to be a referendum on the Trump economy.
But Democrats say they’d like to have bigger ideas from their candidates than smaller or incremental ones. They’d like to see people who they think are fighting for them, almost more affect than anything else. The way that plays going forward is that, when you ask people to look back on other times Democrats have been in power, it’s not necessarily seen as being successful.
Remember, the last time, inflation started under Democrats. So do they need to offer something new in contrast? This is ultimately a fight about what that is.
ED O’KEEFE: All right, Anthony, we will talk a little bit more about this later. Thank you for now.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Thanks.
ED O’KEEFE: We will be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O’KEEFE: Welcome back to “FACE THE NATION.”
We turn now to Pennsylvania State Representative Chris Rabb. He’s the Democratic Party’s nominee in the third district of Pennsylvania. That includes parts of Philadelphia. He is also a member of the Democratic Socialists of America.
Congressman – Representative – you’re not a congressman yet, but, Representative, thank you for being here this morning. We appreciate it.
STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS RABB (D-PA): Nope. My pleasure.
ED O’KEEFE: So, I’m curious, and part of the reason why we wanted to have someone like you here, given that you are the Democratic nominee, but also a member of the DSA, what is a voter getting from a Democrat and a member of the DSA like you that they aren’t necessarily getting from a Democrat like Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear, who we had on earlier?
STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS RABB: That’s a great question. I listened to that segment. And it seems like we have a lot in common. We’re against corruption. We want to fight for working people. We want – we believe that health care is a human right. These are things that we want, increased wages. I support a living wage for all. So, I think we have a lot more in common than people would think.
ED O’KEEFE: But when he says that socialism is a failed experiment, what’s your response to that?
STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS RABB: Well, I imagine he supports Social Security. In a purely capitalistic free market system, we would have no Social Security. We would have no Medicare. We would have no Medicaid. We would have no public education. We would have no interstate highway system. We would not have firefighters. These things are things that are brought to us by different views that have molded us into the nation we are today. It’s not one thing. This is not a purely capitalistic society.
There is capitalism in China, in Finland, everywhere. Like, this is something that we have to understand is a mixture and it is an evolution. Pure capitalism has never worked. Communism is not something that we’ve seen effectively work. What are we doing to make sure that we are moving in the right direction, though. That we are transforming this nation so that it can take care of everyone? How is it that we have our first trillionaire and we still have veterans who are unhoused?
ED O’KEEFE: You know, our new poll out this morning shows that most Democrats have a positive view of socialism. But among all Americans, overall, just 35 percent do. You’ve made the argument here so far, but I’m curious, what do you do to try to win over skeptics, the two-thirds of the country who doesn’t think this is a good idea?
STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS RABB: Well, I wasn’t running for social, I was running for the people of the third congressional district who want a fighter. And that’s something that is more important than the labels that are used in polls because the poll didn’t define socialism. The poll didn’t define capitalism. The poll didn’t define free market system or free enterprise. It didn’t do those. It polled on how people responded to labels that have been put into the ether without any context, historical, any analysis. And I think once you define these things, people can make more informed decisions.
ED O’KEEFE: You are running in what is the most Democratic district in America. Like 40 – plus 40 percent Democratic advantage. So, it’s perhaps understandable or that helps explain how a socialist-backed candidate can emerge. But there are others in the Democratic Party rite large who are –
STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS RABB: No. I have to push back, Ed.
ED O’KEEFE: Why is that?
STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS RABB: I got to push back. There’s – you can’t conflate Democratic performance index with people who support a Democratic socialist. I ran for months long before anyone mentioned that I was a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. I didn’t run for socialism. I ran for the people.
Just because people are more likely to vote for Democrats does not mean that they are inherently more inclined to support this ideology or the other. It just showed that, in my district, in my race, for the Democratic primary, that I came out 14 points ahead in a four-person race, because I was a fighter and I talked about issues that mattered. And socialism did not come up.
ED O’KEEFE: OK. And actually our poll this morning shows that Democratic voters overall are looking for fighters, or people who are certainly promising to do so.
I do want to play, however, something that former ambassador, former Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel said this morning on “SUNDAY MORNING” in conversation with our colleague Robert Costa regarding the progressive versus rest of the party sort of split or discussion that y’all are having.
Take a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VC)
RAHM EMANUEL (Former Chicago Mayor and Former Ambassador): This – again, I’m about flipping red districts to blue. I’m not about taking blue districts and making them midnight blue. You want to see a raise in the minimum raise? Winning over Democratic districts is not the way to get it there. You got to win Republican districts.
(END VC)
ED O’KEEFE: What’s your response to the mayor’s strategic argument there?
STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS RABB: I think listening to folks who have been institutionalists and corporate Dems is probably the wrong thing to do when what your own poll shows is that there’s an exhaustion, there is anger at centrists and institutionalists. And this anti-establishment moment means that we want bold things that are not left or right, but what are the things that are going to move people forward? And, hey, take me to Kentucky. I think I can make that case pretty strongly. And as someone who is five generations in Kentucky, I think this is something that transcends blue districts.
ED O’KEEFE: OK.
On the issue of institutionalists in the party, I’m curious, are you someone who would vote for Hakeem Jefferies to be speaker should Democrats take the majority next January?
STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS RABB: Sorry about that. He hasn’t asked me. But I can tell you this, he’s not going to run unless we secure the new majority, which is what I’m focusing on. I’m focusing on making sure we have good, progressive candidates who are winning in these primaries and who will win on November 3rd. And when we get a new Democratic majority, I would love to have that conversation with him person to person. We have not yet met.
ED O’KEEFE: OK. Now, look, I know you’re a Democratic candidate for Congress. You are, however, a member of the DSA. And there are opponents of that movement who point to the failed socialist governments in Latin American is proof that socialism doesn’t always work.
And the DSA, just in the last few days, put out a statement commemorating the 100th birthday of Fidel Castro, which says, in part, he “was an organizer, a fighter, and endures as a stalwart symbol of anti-imperialist struggle and self-determination for the Global South.”
Do you agree with that sentiment? And does it concern you that this type of celebration of Fidel Castro is what might validate people’s concerns with the DSA?
STATE REPRESENTATIVE CHRIS RABB: I’m not concerned with how people construe this organization. I’m interested in finding what we have in common so that we can move this country forward based on bold policies which that poll suggests people are wanting, irrespective of political ideology or generation.
The other thing I want to mention too is, and this is something that I hear centrists and establishment players talk about is, if we want to reach these people who are outside of, you know, blue districts, how about we actually focus on those folks who live in highly populated blue districts who don’t show up because they’re so exhausted and disaffected with the Democratic Party? If we reach those folks who are inclined to vote for the Democrats, but don’t because we’re not fighting for them, we have a far more likely chance of winning than reaching out to folks who, under no circumstances, would consider folks who embrace values like health care as a human right or housing as a human right or not having a trillionaire class.
There’s some people we’re not going to move. But many people, we can. And I think it’s not about left or right, it’s about moving whole communities forward in the most meaningful way. And as it relates to these statements about other folks in other countries, I hope we’re all anti-imperialist. I hope we’re all anti-fascist. I don’t think these are particularly controversial stances.
ED O’KEEFE: All right, well, we’ll leave it there. You are a big part of the debate in your party about who it should be focused on and how to do it and that’s why we wanted you here.
Representative Rabb, thank you for joining us. We appreciate it.
And we’ll be right back with our political panel. Stay with us.
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ED O’KEEFE: And we are back with our political panel. Sabrina Rodriguez covers politics at “The Wall Street Journal,” Paul Kane reports on Congress and politics for “NOTUS,” or “News of the United States,” Toluse Olorunnipa is a staff writer at “The Atlantic,” and our executive director of elections and surveys, Anthony Salavanto, is back with us as well.
This is kind of a “Washington Post” reunion. A handful of us have worked there before. We’re very proud of the work they continue to do. And it’s the first time for both of you.
SABRINA RODRIGUEZ (Politics Reporter, “The Wall Street Journal”): Yes.
ED O’KEEFE: But, Sabrina, ladies first.
We look at this ongoing struggle in the Democratic Party to define what it is and how to win. You’ve been out and about. And I was struck by something someone said to you out in Wisconsin in recent days. They said, “the Midwest is not Manhattan. There are limits here.” Seems the far left may have actually hit a bit of a wall, at least in the last few days.
SABRINA RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely, Ed. I mean we saw in both Wisconsin and Michigan, I think, you know, coming out of the New York primary there’s been so much conversation around the Democratic socialism versus establishment fight that’s playing out in the party. But there was the big question, OK, in a state like Michigan, in a state like Wisconsin, states that voted for Donald Trump, these, you know, chronically extremely purple states, is there a lane? And clearly the verdict is, it’s very divided. It’s very complicated. You know, seeing Abdul El-Sayed’s win in Michigan. Yes, it’s a big win for the far left, but there is the question mark. He won by one percentage point. So, we’re seeing this fight playing out. And it’s clearly far from over in terms of what direction the party’s going in.
ED O’KEEFE: Paul, who’s also making his “FACE THE NATION” debut, you have covered Congress especially and the contours of the two conferences for this entire century.
PAUL KANE (Reporter, “NOTUS”): Well over (ph).
ED O’KEEFE: So, you’ve seen this once or twice. And that’s not to call you old. It’s to say that – you’re not – that –
PAUL KANE: I’ve got the gray hair.
ED O’KEEFE: But you’ve seen a thing or two when it comes to congressional races. And my point is, we’ve seen the two parties go through cycles like this. And you’ve written recently that the Democrats have the potential to take back the majority but may not be able to do it to the extent that they could have in other cycles if they nominate too many extremist candidates.
PAUL KANE: Yes. There are – for people my age, a lot of us look at this and think, wow, it’s 2006 all over again. Our friend Amy Walter tweeted that, like she’s got a sense of deja vu. There’s – there are, you know, sex scandals happening, a war in the Middle East, the president in his second term very unpopular.
But at the same time, there’s also some 2022 deja vu where Republicans had a lot of great political environment that was going on, but they nominated, not just in the Senate where candidates like Dr. Oz and Hershal Walker got a lot of attention, but they nominated a half dozen to a dozen candidates in winnable districts in the House that were just outside of that general mainstream. And they ended up not getting that sort of big bounce. And they ended up with a majority at just 222 seats, with four votes to spare if everybody shows up.
And so there are – there are some similarities to 2022 that could be happening here where the wrong candidates in the wrong districts in the wrong states might end up not giving the Democrats the sort of election that they could have otherwise.
ED O’KEEFE: And, Toluse, I know that was part of the concern in Michigan, where as Sabrina said, he only won by one point, El-Sayed. And now there’s been polling that suggests he’s under water against the Republican, Mike Rogers.
TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, STAFF WRITER, “THE ATLANTIC”: And he’s – he realizes that and that’s part of the reason he’s trying to move things in a direction of saying he wants to be conciliatory, he wants to have a big tent, he wants to reach out to people who did not vote for him. He wants to reach out to some of those working class voters, some of those black voters, who voted for Haley Stevens. He’s talked about that on the campaign trail.
But this broader civil war that’s taking place within the Democratic Party, it’s really right underneath the surface of all of this sort of kumbaya, work together. There’s a big tent. We’re all united more than we’re divided. Right underneath that there’s a lot of opposition between the two sides of the party. And if they’re able to muscle their way through to November, I suspect that a lot of those divisions will pop back up as soon as we have to figure out who the speaker’s going to be. We heard from Hakeem Jefferies that he does not support the DSA agenda earlier today. And so, there’s going to be a lot of working out they’re going to have to do to get together if they’re able to win the House in November.
ED O’KEEFE: Signaling he doesn’t support the DSA agenda. Signaling he doesn’t support Medicare for all. And what does Chris Rabb say? I haven’t heard from him yet, so I don’t know if I’m voting for him. That’s the kind of trouble that could be coming if they govern, or try to govern.
PAUL KANE: Yes, well, that was, you know, you look at 2022 and like Kevin McCarthy only has a couple votes to spare and he ends up getting held hostage again and again for almost nine months until they kick him out. And then Mike Johnson becomes speaker and he gets held hostage. When you only win a majority by a couple of votes, it gives an opportunity for mischief making among just a few members. And that’s what Hakeem Jefferies could face if they don’t win a big enough majority, or if he doesn’t win the majority it’s an even bigger problem.
SABRINA RODRIGUEZ: I would just add, I mean, I think one of the most striking things to me from the poll this morning is the fact that the majority of voters don’t – the majority of voters regard the Democratic Party as weak and that a majority of voters do not think that the Democratic Party is effective. So, I know there’s this ideological debate that’s happening within the party, but part of opening that Democratic socialists and the progressive left have had this year is because of the repercussions from the 2024 election, from those bruising losses, and this feeling like, what exactly is the party doing? We lost to Donald Trump in 2024. We’re heading into a midterm. What exactly is fighting Donald Trump look like? What wins have actually been accomplished in the last two years? And a lot of frustration from the Democratic base questioning, what exactly does the Democratic Party stand for and how exactly are we going to win?
ED O’KEEFE: Yes. You found something interesting in the poll regarding Democratic and Republican support when it comes to the economy over a key concept.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Oh, price control.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Yes. And what’s interesting here is, for all this talk about ideology, you do see that there’s a certain – you might generously call it pragmatism, in an economy where so many people are complaining about inflation. So, you ask about price controls in general and, yes, you find a number – a large number of Democrats favor independents, but also a slight majority of Republicans. And that’s part of what it tells you. Not everybody sits there and maps everything on to an ideological framework for this in this kind of environment.
ED O’KEEFE: And the president has been not – certainly not at all extreme to the left on this, but he has talked about price controls for different types of – or different elements of the economy. So they must see this or understand that it is something that finds general support.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Yes. And within the Republican Party, it’s interesting, too, for all our talk about Democrats. There’s a gap between the way that Republicans rate the president on issues like immigration and even foreign policy and then on inflation in particular where it’s lower. And it’s hovered around 20 points lower. Still improving but not as high. And that gap is going to be important because when we do get to the midterms, one of the key question I think is going to be, what happens to the Republicans who are a little bit dissatisfied with the president? They don’t dislike him, but on that issue, ah, maybe not so much.
ED O’KEEFE: So, speaking of the numbers and the way things are tracking, can you give us a sense of where at least CBS sees the House and the Senate sitting right now?
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Well, one of the key things – and you started to raise it – is that it’s different structurally from those last couple of midterms because partisanship has kind of sorted out all of the marginal districts. In fact, there aren’t that many.
So, to your point, Ed, there’s maybe under 20 depending on how you count it, and we do, that are true tossup House districts. Which means that if you just look at the partisan brakes on them, you know, it’s within maybe five or six points. Something you could move in a persuasion campaign, like that. So, that really constrains the number in the House at the outset.
And then at the Senate side, you have this different dynamic where you don’t have a whole lot of competitive races out of the whole scope, but you have Democrats trying to pick up seats from the Republicans in places where they’ve had a tough time – I’ll pick out Texas as one – they’ve had a tough time historically winning. Very tough. So, that that kind of map, it’s an interesting dynamic to say the least.
ED O’KEEFE: If we can bring back up that Senate map, I want people to sit with the idea of Texas being a light shade of red this year. That’s kind of the one that’s sitting out there as the maybe. When you, Toluse, talk to Democrats, Sabrina, when you talk to them, how confident do they feel about that one happening?
TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA: Texas is a big challenge for Democrats, in part because they’ve been trying to win Texas for the last 30 odd years. And it’s always seen like the one that gets away. It’s a big state. There are a lot of Republicans there. It’s a structurally Republican-leaning state. And so, the fact that Republicans have a flawed candidate and Democrats have what they feel is a candidate that can compete for some of the moderate voters, some of those evangelical voters, some of the voters that are a little bit more or less ideological and less willing to vote for a flawed Republican who has issues, both corruption issues and issues in his own personal life, they think that the mix is right for Democrats to win this year, but it is a very big state. It’s a very big challenge. And it seems like they’re on an uphill climb to try to win that state.
ED O’KEEFE: Do they have a sense of what it takes?
SABRINA RODRIGUEZ: I mean it’s been the elusive – the elusive dream for Democrats for a while, as you said. I mean it’s been since 1994 no Democrat has won a statewide, you know, a statewide race in Texas. However, there is this opening, when you look at, for example, Hispanic voters. You and I have talked to many of them in Texas that moved toward Donald Trump in the 2024 election. They see an opening with James Talerico now. It certainly doesn’t help him to get tied to the Democratic socialists in a state like Texas. But again, there’s this – Democrats are seeing this real opening because of who Ken Paxton is, because of all the baggage he brings, because of the fact that he had an extremely messy primary that went into a runoff.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
SABRINA RODRIGUEZ: We’re talking about almost $100 million that were spent in anti-Paxton ads. And that sort of helps this perfect storm. But it’s certainly far from guaranteed.
ED O’KEEFE: But temper the expectations because, we’ve talked about this, at least internally, there’s a math issue for Democrats, not only in Texas, but in Iowa, potentially in Alaska and those other ones where they think they now have a shot.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: Yes, well, the math issue in Texas is that you need to move a whole heck of a lot more voters just to make that percentage. A percentage in Texas is not the same thing as a percentage in Iowa. So, you may be the Democrats try to invest more in places where there just aren’t as many voters that you need to swing.
The other polling part of this too is, you look at maybe an even poll, maybe one that’s in the margin of error, but historically, and this is the case perhaps in Maine I think, historically, Susan Collins has turned out her voters.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
ANTHONY SALVANTO: And she’s got people there who have voted for her over many, many cycles. You’re going against that kind of a headwind. So, even if you just see a one or two point gap in the polls, that’s part of the structure.
PAUL KANE: So, in 2006, they won six Senate seats, Democrats, four of which had just voted for George W. Bush two years earlier. But in at least two of them, there were third party, right-leaning libertarian type of voters, like in Montana, that gave the sort of – you were talking about the soft Trump supporters who are people who are a little bit upset about inflation and the war, they’re just – it’s hard for them to vote for a Democrat. And so, in some of the states, they might need that third party person to give that soft Trump supporters, oh, I’m not going to vote for Talerico, but I’m not going to vote for Paxton. And I’ll vote for the libertarian.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
PAUL KANE: So that they can win without clearing 50 percent. Because it’s so hard to get over 50 percent for a Democrat in these states like Iowa, Ohio and Texas.
ED O’KEEFE: Real quick, in our remaining seconds here, the South Carolina Republican runoff in about ten days. Is Darline Graham in trouble against Ralph Norman?
PAUL KANE: Look, her brother spent $20 million in his primary in June just so that he would not get put into a runoff because he knew that the South Carolina primary runoff voters are not Lindsey Graham voters. They are more bright red.
Now you have a late August special election primary runoff where she started with 33 percent. It’s not clear that she can win unless Trump really goes there and really lays down the law and says, you’ve got to vote for her.
ED O’KEEFE: Well, we’ll see if he does that in the next few days because to spend his political capital there would be telling with less than 80 days to go until Election Day.
Sabrina, Paul, Anthony, Toluse, thanks for being here. We appreciate it.
And we’ll be back in a moment.
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ED O’KEEFE: That’s it for us today. Thank you for watching. Margaret will be back next week. I’m Ed O’Keefe. Take care.
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