Full transcript of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Sept. 20, 2026
On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Rep. Ro Khanna, Democrat of California
- Rep. Maria Elvira Salazar, Republican of Florida
- Sen. Bill Cassidy, Republican of Louisiana
- IBM vice chairman Gary Cohn
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2026 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: President Trump bars three major news organizations from covering the White House, as Republican concern over the impact of his policies continues to grow.
The countdown clock to the midterm elections continues to tick down, but the rest of the numbers affecting the economy continue to go up. We’re now 200 days into the war with Iran, and gas prices remain high, with diesel prices at new record highs.
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): Actually, that’s the war that’s driving up the diesel prices, but it’s all going to end very soon.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s a promise that’s wearing thin with some Republicans, especially in Iowa, where farmers are struggling and where two House Republicans in tight races voted last week to oppose the president’s open-ended war in Iran.
Trump’s deportation policy is an issue for Republicans in some districts. Florida Congresswoman Maria Elvira Salazar made a direct appeal to the president in a campaign ad.
(Begin VT)
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR (R-Florida): The same Hispanics who helped you get to the White House in 2024 feel betrayed today.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will talk with Congresswoman Salazar, California Democrat Ro Khanna, plus Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy, and Trump’s first-term economic adviser Gary Cohn.
Finally, we will hear another viewpoint in the debate over how to manage the fast-moving pace of artificial intelligence development, as our Jo Ling Kent spoke with Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang.
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
We begin what could be a pivotal week for President Trump with respect to foreign policy, especially when it comes to the conflict with Iran, Russia’s war with Ukraine and U.S.-China policy. He will head to New York for the annual U.N. General Assembly Monday, then host Chinese President Xi Jinping here in Washington later this week.
The energy shock from production and oil supply disruptions is intensifying, and we have seen assaults on Saudi Arabian infrastructure from Iran-affiliated forces. The struggle over control of the Strait of Hormuz continues, and, overnight, new attacks from Ukraine on a Russian energy facility as well.
With midterm Election Day now just 44 days away, that pressure over high gas prices is hitting the president and his party hard. All 435 seats in Congress are up on November 3. So, perhaps that explains why Speaker Mike Johnson sent the House home until mid-November.
We begin today with California Congressman Ro Khanna, who is the top Democrat on the Select Committee on the Chinese Communist Party, and he joins us from Fremont.
Good morning to you, Congressman.
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA (D-California): Good morning, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, China and the U.S. are in an arms race. You have proposed this idea that Chinese AI firms should cooperate with American companies. You sent letters to DeepSeek, Alibaba, other firms urging them to follow the lead of the American firms like OpenAI and Anthropic to slow the rate of AI advancement until society develops guardrails, as you put it.
Have any of these Chinese firms responded to your proposal?
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: They have not.
Winning an AI war is like winning a nuclear war. It is catastrophic for civilization. And what we have asked is that they agree to some basic terms. Look, there are two dangers to AI, either the loss of control or misuse. And the Chinese firms have taken no actions on either of them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I’m looking at what the FBI, the NSA and Homeland Security, their division CISA – they have all warned that China-based AI companies are targeting and copying American artificial intelligence at what they describe as an industrial scale.
So how can you ask competitors to collaborate? Isn’t it inherently at odds if they’re stealing technology?
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: Well, they’re right that they are engaging in distillation.
Basically, they are copying American models. That’s one reason, frankly, to regulate American models. Because they’re copying them, some of the safeguards would protect the world. But, at the same time, we also need an international agreement with Xi Jinping to have basic standards.
That should include international monitoring. It should include checks through the data centers, where you can tell whether a model is being used for inference or training. And it should use enforceable and verifiable tools.
Now, obviously, you can’t just trust the Chinese. But, like any agreement, like an arms control agreement, as Reagan said, you need to trust and verify. And the world has done this before. There’s no reason we can’t do it when it comes to AI.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I’m looking at Bloomberg’s figures. They report China’s preparing to spend about $300 billion over the next five years to build data centers across that country, which will be operated by state-owned firms.
As you know, there’s really no wall between the state and industry in China. So, when you are acknowledging they commit human rights abuses and their AI firms help the state to commit those abuses, aren’t you asking the CEOs to do something that’s at odds with what Xi Jinping is seeking to do?
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: Well, the first ask is of Trump and Xi Jinping to come up with an international agreement.
And two of the core principles should be, one, banning any self- improving AI, recursive self-improving AI. That’s basically AI that continues to improve itself and where we could lose control. The second is to have safeguards so that AI can’t be misused by people for biological nuclear weapons.
The letters to the Chinese companies were simply seeking information about what they’re doing. It wasn’t intended as a solution. What it was intended to do is highlight the need for the Chinese government and the U.S. government to come to an agreement, and that needs to be the first agenda item on the Trump-Xi Jinping summit.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
Well, we know it’s going to come up. We just don’t know the details of exactly what it is the U.S. is proposing at all. We’re going to watch for that in this next weeklong set of meetings with China.
You sit on the Armed Services Committee. Yesterday, President Trump posted on social media that his plan is to create an AI czar and form the AI Force, “much like I did the Space Force.”
I’m not exactly sure where he’s going with that, but you yourself have called for a new government agency to be set up to deal with AI. So you both seem to agree that the existing infrastructure isn’t enough. Why can’t you just have Cyber Command handle all of this? What does the executive branch or Congress actually have to do?
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: Well, we need to set up an AI agency like the FDA. I mean, I don’t know what Trump’s – President Trump’s vision is.
I don’t know if he’s using AI in an offensive capability, which would give me a lot of pause, especially because, when you have things like the shooting of the Iranian school, where you had AI information basically feed something into a – into a general, and then you had pro forma sign-off, that gives me concern.
What I’m talking about is what Geoffrey Hinton, the godfather of AI, has said, which is that this can be regulated, like we regulate nuclear energy, electricity, aviation. Have independent technical experts make sure AI is safe.
And, Margaret, one of the things that really annoys me is when you have these tech CEOs out there saying, oh, this is too complicated, people in Washington don’t understand this.
Give me a break. We have regulated very complex things. We know we can appoint independent, smart people from universities. This is not complicated. We need to have an independent federal agency.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, respectfully, Congressman, Congress hasn’t regulated a lot of things or come forward with much legislation of late. But, to put that aside, I take your broader point.
I want to ask you about another important topic at this meeting with Xi Jinping and President Trump, and that is the fate of Americans who do business or travel to China. Secretary Rubio has designated two U.S. citizens as wrongfully detained by China, and one of them is your constituent, scholar Min Zin.
He has been held for 100 days now by the Ministry of State Security without access to a lawyer. He has no court date. And I spoke with his wife on Friday. Take a listen.
(Begin VT)
SYLVIA ZIN (Wife of Min Zin): He’s been charged with endangering national security, and that’s all we know.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s a big charge.
SYLVIA ZIN: It’s a huge charge. It’s – my daughter looked it up, and she – I think that really freaked her out. That’s when she was like: “What is going to happen to Dad?”
And, yes, it’s a shock, right? I mean, he’s a scholar. He’s an academic. He’s not a spy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What did you think when the U.S. government explained to you this charge?
SYLVIA ZIN: That was what I asked. Like, what does that mean? And they – they’re like: “We don’t have more information. This is all we’ve been told.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: When the U.S. government says that the safety of Americans is their highest priority, do you believe that?
SYLVIA ZIN: Well, the president has brought home over 100 wrongfully detained Americans home, right? So I’m hoping my husband is the next one.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Now, this scholar was disappeared shortly after he landed to a conference he was invited to.
A lot of Americans go to China to conduct business. What are you and others in the government doing to help those who are detained when they’re doing work there?
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: Well, it’s appalling.
And while I have my disagreements with Secretary Rubio, in this, I stand in complete solidarity with him, as does the China Committee. We cannot have American citizens or scholars in America be detained or disappeared because of what they say.
And when I was in China about a year ago, we raised this issue, not on this specific case, but we had heard cases of Chinese students in the United States who were not being allowed to continue because they may have engaged in some protest or had an errant social media tweet.
We had heard cases of people who were detained, business leaders or people doing business, because they disagreed with the Chinese government. And that is unacceptable to the United States.
And then, of course, there’s the whole situation with the Uyghurs. We just had a hearing last week on the Uyghurs situation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE RO KHANNA: Extraordinary human rights abuses. And we need that to be front and center in this meeting as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman Khanna, we thank you for your time today.
And we turn now to Florida Republican Congresswoman Maria Elvira Salazar, who joins us from Miami.
Good morning to you, Congresswoman.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR (R-Florida): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to talk to you…
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: Thank you for the opportunity. have you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re glad to have you.
I want to talk to you about a number of issues, but let me just start up front, because you are a former journalist, I’m sure you saw yesterday journalists from CNN, Politico, and MS NOW were blocked from entering the White House after the president objected to the content of their organization’s reporting.
Do you agree with the president’s order to do that?
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: Well, I think that the president has a different type of style.
But, at the same time, I think that he is the most accessible president in the later years that has been – that has been talking to the media. You know, he talks to everybody. So, may – he may not be allowing for some journalists to go into one place, but I’m sure that he’s going – he’s going be talking to everybody at some point.
That’s his style. And he is very…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: … very accessible, not like Biden.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, I – I understand that point.
But when it comes to saying you can’t attend press briefings because I don’t like what you said, doesn’t that premise violate the spirit of the First Amendment?
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: Well, I think that he has his own style, and that he will determine who he wants to talk to.
But with social media and with all the different outlets out there for people to receive information, I am sure that those journalists are going to be able to cover the president the way that you – free speech, the way you determine, because you know, you – the media…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: … has a way of – of showing up right now.
And you know that the American school of journalism is not so vigorous as it was during the time that we started this career. So, I have my – my different opinions as to what’s happening on television…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I don’t…
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: … and the coverage of this presidency.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. Well, I understand your views, but I don’t think proximity is going to stop these journalists from doing their jobs.
Let me ask you about something you put out there this week. You have been speaking for months about your concerns regarding President Trump’s immigration policies. But in this ad you put out, you’re more direct. You said, the same Hispanics who helped Trump get to the White House in 2024, feel betrayed. His enforcement efforts have gone too far, and half of the 50,000 people detained in July had no criminal record.
You spoke to the president after this. Did he take any of your…
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: Yes, I did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did he take any of your advice?
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: Listen, it was a very good conversation.
He was a gentleman, very courteous, very receptive. And I told him exactly what you just repeated: “Sir, you have this – this moment in history where you can keep the pot of gold that you brought to the GOP in 2024. No other president” – and you know I covered for 35 years Spanish television.
“No other president was able to convince the – the Hispanics to vote 55 points for a GOP president. Please preserve that fortune that you have brought to the party.”
Why? Because we need to continue winning elections, because we have this very big threat called the socialists on the Democratic side. And if you want me, we can talk about that later. I belong to the Miami community. I’m the daughter of political refugees. I’m first-generation American, and I want to preserve the American values that are entrenched in the GOP…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: … and that the Hispanics share.
“So, remember, sir, that you are the only guy who can do this.”
And that – and then we had a fantastic conversation. I certainly hope he listened to what I was saying. But he listened.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But he seems to have a different definition of criminality than – than you do, right?
Because the administration argues anyone who entered this country undocumented should be deported. You’re saying no.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: Well, and – and – and, well, you know, and you know very well immigration is a very toxic topic. It’s a very complex topic.
And the average American, the normal American who is watching right now knows two things, that 70 percent of the polls say that the average American wants some type of immigration reform law, which is…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: I was – I presented that legislation called the Dignity Act five years ago.
And, number two, the average American understands the difference between the narco and the nanny and the gangster and the gardener. So it’s very…
MARGARET BRENNAN: But the president doesn’t.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: It – what’s happening – the president does too.
And you know why? Because he had said it over the last two years that there are good people picking up the jalapeno peppers, working in agricultural, construction, hospitality, health care, and manufacturing. He is a construction and hospitality guy. He gets it more than anybody.
And I told him during our conversation, you could fix this mess that has been happening for 40 years. He’s the only person…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: … because he gets it. He’s a businessman. And he has the political ability to convince both parties to vote for this legislation or any immigration reform.
All I’m trying to do – I’m coming from a very good place. I am a proud Republican, and I do want the continuing – I want the values of the American people to continue.
I’m sorry that I interrupted you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, no, no, I understand.
But it doesn’t sound like he agreed to take your advice. You did say in that ad as well that he’s getting bad advice, bad counsel from his advisers. Who?
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: I think that some of his advisers are compromising his legacy.
And I think it’s my duty, it’s my duty not to attack. There are no attacks here. I’m just forewarning him and advising him as a member of Congress from the South Florida area that some of his advisers are just not presenting the whole picture…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Mullin?
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: … and that some of the immigration enforcement…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Tom Homan? Stephen Miller?
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: I – listen, he is the only elected official in the White House. He is the one who has to determine who he listens and who he does not listen to.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: He is the president. I – what I’m doing is, I’m coming from an elevated emotion. I’m coming from a good place.
I’m telling him, “Sir…”
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: “… this – look what you did. Don’t squander it.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: Understood.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: And on top of that, you know, what – what’s happening with immigration enforcement. That’s what I did.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You mentioned socialism.
This week, Venezuela’s leader, Delcy Rodriguez, a socialist, Maduro’s number two, is going to meet with President Trump in New York. On this network, you have previously said she was in charge of the secret police. She was one of the thieves, you described her, who destroyed Venezuela.
So should the American president be welcoming her and sitting across from her in New York?
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: Well, once again, you see, we go back to Donald Trump. He created this new blueprint, the Western Hemisphere, and how to deal with the dictators.
And what he did was that he – and think about this. I think that we discussed this. He created this – he has forced the bad actors like Delcy, because she was next to Maduro, and we know that they were not good people for the Venezuelans.
So, Trump has forced the bad actors to create the platform for the good actors to come in, just like President – like Secretary Rubio said recently, that there was recovery and then transition. I do know that the United States is in the business of bringing liberty and democracy to our neighbors, and transition will occur.
So, Delcy is just a necessary evil for now to stabilize. Look what happened.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: I mean, the Venezuelans love President Trump. He liberated them from socialism…
MARGARET BRENNAN: But…
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: … from disaster, from misery. Now, I’m sure that soon we’re going to be able to create new and fair elections with international observers, and once again we will have done our job of bringing democracy and freedom to the Western Hemisphere.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we will watch the answer to that question of soon and when.
Thank you very much, Congresswoman, for your time this morning.
REPRESENTATIVE MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR: Thanks. Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation will be back in a minute.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined now by Republican Senator Bill Cassidy. He is the chairman of the Health Committee. And he joins us from Baton Rouge, Louisiana.
Good morning to you, Doctor.
A lot to get to. I want to start first on something that grabbed our attention. President Trump claimed Friday that his son has now repaid a Russian billionaire named Umar Kremlev after it was reported that the Kremlin-linked billionaire paid for parts of his son’s wedding celebrations in the Bahamas.
Don Jr. originally called it a gift, but your Republican colleague from Utah Senator Curtis called it corruption. Your colleague from North Carolina Thom Tillis said it was beyond bad.
Do you think it’s corruption, and does repaying the funds make a difference?
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY (R-Louisiana): Well, repaying the funds does make a difference.
Any time someone gives a $250,000 gift and they have strong ties to the Kremlin, that’s – that’s wrong. You – with that proximity to power, being the president’s son, you’ve got to give faith to the American people that Washington is not a swamp.
And even though in your mind it might be a gift, the appearance of it is really bad., And so I’m glad it’s been repaid. Would be nice to have that kind of verified. And, no, it shouldn’t have been done in the first place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it was the free press that brought it forward in the first place. It was a publication called ProPublica, important reporting there.
Let me ask you about an issue that I know is on your radar, and that is the debt we are in. As a country, we are $40 trillion in debt. President Trump said he’s going to pay out $5,000 to Americans if Republicans win in these upcoming midterm elections.
I know the Treasury secretary says he’ll avoid going to Congress for that money. Even if it’s not fiscal spending, isn’t it inflationary? And is it actually a good idea?
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: It’s absolutely inflationary. If Joe Biden had proposed that, conservatives would have been all against it.
And I say that because, if the government borrows money, it’s going to drive up how much somebody pays for their mortgage, for their car note, perhaps for their credit card. And so, for that family struggling to buy their first home or to refinance a home or to buy a car, it becomes that much more out of reach to you.
We need to actually pay attention to our national debt. And I can tell you that, if we can control our debt, that will be a stimulus to somebody. That will help them be able to afford life better. That’s a better way to go.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Anything like that going to happen post-midterms to control the debt?
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: Well, so, as you know, I have been pushing to address Social Security.
And the nice thing about addressing Social Security, which I would still love to do this Congress, is that – is that not only do you ensure the benefit that has been promised to the American people, but you also take care of 20 percent of our nation’s indebtedness.
And so that’s why I have been so pushing for this. If we wait six years until…
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: … the trust fund goes insolvent, my gosh.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: … that’s too late. We need to do it now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Absolutely.
Let’s talk more about it in a minute. I’m going to take this commercial break, Senator.
And we’ll have much more with Dr. Bill Cassidy. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back with a lot more Face the Nation.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face the Nation.
We return now to our conversation with Louisiana Republican Senator and Dr. Bill Cassidy.
Senator, you, as we mentioned, run the Health Committee. President Trump spoke at length on Friday again about vaccines, and he said he’s going to demand that drug companies split up kids’ vaccines into five doses.
He said it will lead – quote – “to a massive reduction in autism.” Take a listen.
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): So you have shot one, shot two, shot three, shot four, shot five. So, instead of having a massive dose of 82 or 88 different vaccines pumped into your arm, we’ll take out certain vaccines that people are a little worried about.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you know what vaccines he means or whether vaccine makers are actually going to do what he just promised?
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: I don’t know that.
There needs to be, though, radical honesty. Have the president come forward. What is he basing this on? Who’s giving him advice? And I approach this as a physician.
I spoke to a pediatrician the other night who says that patients are so worried. Patients’ mothers are so worried. And so we need to address that worry where it is, not by coming up with stuff which may have no – I have no clue where it’s coming from, but kind of, in a radically honest way, explain what you think.
If you want to be radically honest, the vaccines are safe. They’ve been proven to be safe, and the current regimen has been timed to be most convenient to the parent. At any point, the parent can say: I want something different.
But I would just ask the president to reveal – where the people are listening to him, if he discourages immunization, there’ll be fewer people immunized, and, if we’re speaking of measles, there’ll be more people sick, in the hospital or even die.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, and just on the math of it all, he’s talking about more shots, adding shots, rather than reducing them.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But your committee holds a hearing this coming week on the nominee to be the next FDA commissioner, Dr. Heidi Overton. She was standing beside President Trump a few weeks ago when he falsely called the MMR vaccine lethal.
You said it was a nonsensical executive order that he was signing to change the childhood vaccine schedule. She’d be involved with the vaccine makers here. You said her presence and involvement was almost disqualifying.
Why not automatically? What do you need to hear from her to be persuaded?
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: I need to hear that she understands that calling the measles vaccine lethal is absurd and we need radical honesty.
Tell us, Mr. President, why do you think this vaccine is lethal? Have you ever seen a case of lethality? And what about the people who are not vaccinated who are getting sick and even dying, by the way, a 40-year- old and an 18-year-old most recently?
And what do we say to those families in the neonatal intensive care unit at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, where a child, an older child, with active measles walked through, exposing those children in that ICU?
We should have a common voice of radical honesty, of – of trying to help the American people understand what is safe.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: And if the president calls it lethal, then where are you getting your information, Mr. President? And if – if you really don’t have it, why are you willing to risk the lives of fellow Americans?
MARGARET BRENNAN: And on this program, Dr. Oz did admit that it was not lethal when we pressed him. But – but no one did on camera.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: And, Margaret…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: And, Margaret, can I also point out…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: … that the president’s nominee for surgeon general, Dr. Saphier…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: … just said in committee hearing last week that it’s not lethal, it is safe, and people should be vaccinated.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did she earn your vote? And, if so, when will we see her confirmed as surgeon general?
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: So, she did earn my vote, and she’ll be part of, I’m sure, the en bloc. You know, there’s a whole group of people that’ll be all approved at the same time.
But when somebody is willing to be honest to the American people and say that vaccines are safe, you should be taking it, and the consequence of not can even include death, well, what else can you ask for when it comes to vaccines?
MARGARET BRENNAN: You mentioned a moment ago the concern that the Pennsylvania Department of Health has said about the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia and exposure of babies, infants in NICU. A baby’s not immunized until around 12 months of age, so these infants are at risk here.
And Dr. Paul Offit, who heads the Vaccine Education Center, said the United States is severely underestimating the epidemic of measles right now.
So, we have had for about 2.5 weeks now a new CDC director, Dr. Erica Schwartz. In her very first interview, she said the CDC is working on a definition of what a measles-related death is. Is that really what the CDC should be focused on, the – the nuance around the language?
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: So, Dr. Schwartz and I have communicated on multiple occasions.
And – and there is a difference in medicine between caused by and associated with. Of the four deaths in Pennsylvania, one was associated with measles, but the coroner did not say that measles caused the death. The other three – other three, a coroner, by the way, all Republicans, have said that the deaths were caused by measles.
Now, there’s apparently a lag time between receive – the records being sent, received by CDC from Phil – from Pennsylvania and being posted. But the coroner in Phil – in Pennsylvania has three – three different cases, have said that these deaths were caused by measles.
And I will repeat, Margaret, one was 40 and one was 18 years old. Having measles is not a kind of victimless kind of experience.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: It’s a little bit like drunk driving. You – you can drive drunk. You know, you can drink and get drunk, but if you drive, you’re going to hurt other people.
You can get measles, but when you start spreading it to other people, a 40-year-old dies, an 18-year-old dies. Children in a neonatal intensive care unit are at risk.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: People have got to realize and the government has to realize it.
The president should be saying…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: … be vaccinated. It is safe and effective.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think this is going to hurt your party in the midterms?
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: If you look at polling, women, who make most of the health decisions for a family, overwhelmingly support childhood immunization.
And so if – if the American people feel as if there is a message coming out which is not good for the health of the United States…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR BILL CASSIDY: … and which is confusing people, I can tell you it probably does hurt.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Dr. Cassidy, Senator, thank you for your time today. We’ll leave it there.
We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re joined now by Gary Cohn. He is the vice chairman at IBM. He previously served as the top economic adviser to President Trump during that first term.
Welcome back. It’s always good to have you here.
GARY COHN (Former Director, White House National Economic Council): Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So we have a lot of pressure points right now. One of them is diesel prices at this record high, motor oil, jet fuel costs. They’re all affecting consumers.
And this is not just in America, I mean, around the world, the video alone of what’s happening with protests in some of these countries, in Syria, Philippines, Guatemala, all gas price protests. How concerned are you about the state of the consumer and the global economy?
GARY COHN: Well, Margaret, I think you went to the exact topic that the consumer in the United States is most concerned about. It’s energy and energy products.
You start with gasoline, the most obvious thing. People go to the pump daily, weekly, and they sit there and they hold the nozzle down and they watch the numbers tick. And they see these numbers are higher than they were last week and they’re higher than the week before. Is this ever going to stop?
So, directly, they see it. Then, indirectly, when you talk about diesel, diesel is really the feedstock for food in this country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
GARY COHN: Our farmers go through diesel to grow their crops, to pick their crops, to deliver the crops. The transportation network is all dependent on diesel.
So you see the secondhand effects of diesel in the economy as well. So, the consumer sentiment has turned quite negative. And then throw on top of that the unknowns of AI is really concerning people, because they see very high prices. They’re unsure about AI. They’re unsure about the job market. And so sentiment has become quite negative recently.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s become negative, and yet you hear Treasury Secretary Bessent and others saying, we’ve got all these positive data points, right, with like the poverty rate in this country really at a historic low.
This morning, he was posting about that on social media as he’s getting ready to meet with the Chinese. He says, there’s strong foreign demand for U.S. assets. He refutes the idea that investors are balking at Treasuries.
But there does seem this concern about America’s stability and fiscal health.
GARY COHN: You know, we’re – we’re in a very funny place here.
The overall economy is quite stable. So, if you look at some of the headline indicators, you look at GDP, you look at employment, you look at consumer spending, the numbers are pretty good. They’re pretty good to very good. So what’s actually going on in the day-to-day economy that Secretary Bessent is talking about, he’s right.
But when you ask consumers about how they feel about the economy and where they think they’re going to be in a month from now, a quarter from now, a year from now, then you see this very negative sentiment of all of these issues flowing through.
But we have not seen a slowdown in consumption. That said, we have seen real wages turn negative in the last few months, meaning that wage growth is slower than inflation growth. So, your purchasing power goes down. But people have decided to use their savings – and savings is diminishing.
They’ve decided to use their savings to continue to consume products the way they have always consumed products. Now, that can’t go on forever. We will run out of savings.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That says a lot about us as Americans, doesn’t it?
GARY COHN: Well, we are very good consumers in America.
(LAUGHTER)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, this past week, we had this significant move, though, by the new Federal Reserve chair, Kevin Warsh. I know you know him personally.
He came out and said the economy is strengthening, with new hiring, private sector earnings, capital investment, but the Open Market Committee unanimously said, we’ve got to hike rates because of persistent inflation.
Did it surprise you?
GARY COHN: Not at all.
As you know, the Fed has a dual mandate. Mandate number one is full employment. And the – and the chair came out and talked about how strong the employment was. I just talked about how strong the employment picture in the United States is.
Point two that they deal with, the second part of their mandate, is something called stable prices. Stable prices means that they’re trying to shoot for a 2 percent unemployment rate. The chairman has made it very clear…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Inflation rate.
GARY COHN: … very clear that he is going to fight inflation. He said it in his first meeting. He said it in his Jackson Hole – he said it in any interview he’s given. He’s told you he’s going to fight inflation.
So, we now come to this meeting last week, and we still have inflation up in the high 2 percent, 2-point – closer to 3 percent. And he did exactly what he told you he was going to do. And, more importantly, he did it with the unanimous vote of all of the governors in the Fed.
I think it’s been many, many meetings – I don’t want to guess exactly, but it’s probably been six – six-plus meetings since we have had a consensus unanimous vote inside the Fed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And on the cusp of an election. That surprised so many people.
But the president said the Fed did the wrong thing. Maybe he meant politically. But, practically speaking, what will this hike do?
GARY COHN: So, practically, it’s an interesting hike, because we all know that the inflation is being driven from the supply side of the equation, meaning that we don’t have enough supply in the system going back to energy.
If we had more energy in the system, the price of energy would come down and we’d see some of the inflation come out of the system. So, this is not – this cut can’t change the amount of oil that’s in the system. It can’t create diesel. It can’t create gasoline.
But what the – what this increase does – sorry about that – this increase does is, it makes the cost of borrowing more expensive. And that’s the intention.
(CROSSTALK)
GARY COHN: The intention is to have consumers buy less product. Therefore, there’s less demand that offsets with the lower supply that we have in the – in the system. It’s really a balancing act in here.
Now, it’s 25 basis points. And, remember, it’s federal funds, which means it’s the very front end of the interest rate curve. So, they – they raised the rates in the front end of the interesting (sic) curve. An interesting thing actually happened. The longer-dated securities, interest-sensitive, actually got cheaper, or the rates went down on them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The government bonds.
GARY COHN: So, the key – the government bonds.
So, in essence, the curve, which had been fairly steep, meaning the difference between the overnight rate and the 30-year rate, it technically flattened. So, the differential between those two rates flattened.
So, to the extent that people are getting a mortgage, or they’re getting a car loan, or they’re financing their credit card, the rate of which the banks used to set that really did not change or went lower over the – over the course of the week, and the rate at which depositors can get money overnight on their deposits actually went up.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
Well, you – thank you on the yield curve and bonds, because that’s where I was going on Bessent, the Treasury secretary buying $5 billion in U.S. debt. Does that improve anything, or is it really just Congress has got to cut their own spending?
GARY COHN: Well, ultimately, Congress has to cut their own spending.
And it’s not only just Congress. We have enormous demand from the data centers in the AI world. There’s more debt being issued by corporates, as well as the governments, than we’ve seen in a long period of time.
But what Secretary Bessent was doing is exactly what Chairman Warsh is doing. They’re both trying to make the longer end of the curve, the part of the curve where you and I borrow money when we get a car, when we buy a home, they’re trying to make the longer-dated maturities cheaper.
They’re trying to drive the interest rates down on the long end of the curve. Secretary Bessent used the tool he has available to him. And Chairman Warsh used the tool he has available to him, and they’re both driving the same outcome.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we’ll see if it works.
GARY COHN: We will – we will hope it works.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll…
(LAUGHTER)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll hope it works.
Gary Cohn, always good to have you here.
GARY COHN: Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be back in a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: As the debate over the direction and future of artificial intelligence intensifies, our new CBS poll shows Americans are fundamentally divided on the technology and the questions of, at what pace, or should we even develop AI technology?
Forty-three percent of Americans say AI companies should slow down development, 12 percent say we should stop, while 44 percent say we should keep the current pace or even speed up. Nearly two-thirds of Americans, 64 percent, say the U.S. developing AI is necessary to compete with other countries.
After an AI researcher spoke earlier this month of his concerns that the technology could pose a threat to humanity within 10 years, Americans say they do have concerns about AI models potentially causing harm to humans, with half saying they probably or certainly will, with the other half divided between those who think the models probably or certainly will not or are not sure.
One industry leader who’s firmly on the side of acceleration is Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang, whose company makes chips used by AI developers in both the U.S. and China.
He spoke with our Jo Ling Kent for CBS Sunday Morning. Here’s some of their conversation.
(Begin VT)
JO LING KENT: Are we all going to be, in the words of some, gone in a decade?
JENSEN HUANG (CEO, Nvidia): No, that’s – that’s completely false. And that’s – that kind of narrative is dramatic. It gets a lot of attention.
JO LING KENT: Yes.
JENSEN HUANG: Of course, obviously it’s gotten the attention of the press. And I think, at its core, they care deeply that the products are built safely.
They’re transitioning from a lab to engineering. They have to dedicate a lot more of their research, researchers, a lot more of their compute to safety. All the messaging around the drama of it is unnecessary. It’s, quite frankly, too much drama, irresponsible. It is not grounded on facts. It’s not grounded on science.
JO LING KENT: So it’s wrong?
JENSEN HUANG: Well, it’s – it’s wrong because it’s not grounded on science.
Their concern is not wrong. I just want to make sure that, at the core of it, the concern is not wrong.
JO LING KENT: Do you think that we should be pacing the development of AI right now, given where we are vis-a-vis China?
JENSEN HUANG: We should go as fast as we can, but not faster than we should. And if we’re – if we’re compromising safety, that can’t happen. If you’re compromising safety and you deliver products that are unsafe that put people in harm’s way, we have laws of all kinds to come after you.
And so the companies that are developing these technologies are perfectly incentivized to do the right thing. And I have every confidence. I have every confidence, because they’re incentivized to do so, they have the capability to do so, that we will deliver. We will create AI, advance AI in a way that’s safe to society.
JO LING KENT: The president is calling this fear a hoax. Do you agree with his characterization of it?
JENSEN HUANG: I believe the claims of the end of the world, stirring fear across America, and doing it by the people who are doing it makes no sense to me. So they must be doing it for ulterior reasons.
That’s – that’s – maybe it’s political. Maybe it’s otherwise. Maybe it’s just attention-grabbing, maybe so that they could get a great interview with you. I don’t – I don’t know what is the reason for it, but however it’s characterized, 2030 is not going to be the end of the world.
There is zero percent chance that’s going to be the end of the world. And so I think that scaring people is unnecessary, it is irresponsible, and I don’t know what their motives are.
However, what he did say and some of the other things – so that’s one thing that he said. The other thing that he said was – was that we don’t need more regulations. We need to apply the current regulations we have. That’s a very practical, very sensible thing. And we just spoke about that as well, and I agree with that.
JO LING KENT: You will be attending the state dinner with President Xi Jinping of China. If you get a chance to speak to him about this situation that we’re in right now, the one that Americans are so concerned about, what will you say to the president of China?
JENSEN HUANG: I would say that I’m delighted to see AI’s technology transitioning from laboratories to now really useful capabilities and products and services.
And because it’s making that transition, it would be good for all countries that are developing and advancing AI to do so in a way where we share best practices, maybe – maybe set global standards about product expectations, just as we have…
JO LING KENT: Work closer together.
JENSEN HUANG: Oh, of course we’re closer together.
If we want – look, they want China to be safe. They want China to have the benefit of AI. They want China to prosper, just as we want the United States to prosper. I’m glad they have ambitious expectations and aspirations.
As they advance the technology, we ought to make sure that we work with each other as much as we can.
JO LING KENT: I want to ask you about something that’s really bothering a lot of Americans right now. There’s a lot of people who don’t want data centers in their backyards.
JENSEN HUANG: Yes. Yes.
JO LING KENT: This is rare bipartisan unity.
JENSEN HUANG: Yes.
JO LING KENT: The backlash is bipartisan.
Nvidia powers a lot of data centers. What do you say to the people out there who are speaking out and saying, we do not want these in our neighborhoods?
JENSEN HUANG: Well, I would say, we’re sorry we didn’t come talk to you sooner. We need to go engage the communities long before we set up the data centers.
And I think all of my colleagues recognize this today. It’s just all of this happened so quickly, and it happened all over America so quickly. We didn’t realize and we didn’t get a chance to be polite, to be – to be a visitor in some new town.
However, I will also say the data centers are also improving tremendously and tremendously quickly.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Jo Ling’s full conversation with Jensen Huang can be seen on the CBS Sunday Morning YouTube channel.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And this breaking news development with the president’s plan for a 250-foot Triumphal Arch to be built near Arlington Cemetery just across the Potomac River in Virginia inspired from the Arc de Triomphe in Paris.
In a new social media post, the president says it may now feature a national security facility featuring drones and snipers.
Quote: “At the strong request of the United States military and for national security purposes, I have agreed to convert the magnificent Triumphal Arch planned since the Civil War era many years ago at the Receptive Circle adjoining the Arlington Memorial Bridge into a top- grade military complex Triumphal Arch to house, store, and have the rapid ability to use large numbers of drones, plus snipers, on both the roof and plaza areas, and additionally have and hold large quantities of sniper ammunition in storage.”
And we will continue to follow that one.
That’s it for us today. Thank you for watching. Until next week, for Face the Nation, I’m Margaret Brennan.
